Ubuntu Wiki

   03:05 nomed hi all
   03:06 janimo hi
   03:07 janimo not much on today's agenda
   03:07 nomed janimo, yep ..
   03:08 janimo we'll improvise :)
   03:08 nomed what about xubuntu burner ?
   === pips1 [n=philipp@68.15.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
   03:08 janimo so re tango I did not yet get an answer from daniel
   03:08 janimo nomed, I thin it is graveman for dapper
   03:08 nomed i know he's waitin too :)
   03:08 janimo xfburn ha a nicer interface it's just incomplete
   03:09 nomed janimo, i've seen some new app at gnomefiles ..
   03:09 nomed but i should test them .. and i'm not sure they 're better then graveman ..
   03:10 janimo nomed, I think we should be cautios this late
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   03:10 janimo especially with non packaged stuff
   03:10 nomed janimo, i know :)
   03:10 janimo I did not much try various burners
   03:10 janimo nooone likes frying CDs I guess so that's why they ar enot much tested :)
   03:10 janimo I like xfburn's DnD
   03:10 ogra janimo, are you aware that you will cripple graveman a lot if you pull it to main (i.e. mp3 burning etc) thats the reason we decided to not pull it in back at UDU
   03:10 janimo but since the author is busy with school
   03:11 janimo it is dapper+1
   03:11 janimo ogra, had no idea
   03:11 janimo ogra, thanks for the tip
   03:11 ogra janimo, users wont be happy ...
   03:11 janimo I thought it was 'just' a burner
   03:11 janimo in this case we do not
   03:11 ogra it uses backend software
   03:11 janimo I am not cripppling anything, don't listen to seb ;)
   03:12 janimo not intentionally at least
   03:12 ogra i.e. to burn an mp3 it neerds to be converted
   03:12 janimo ogra, so it has internal mp3 stuff?
   03:12 janimo or does it call other packages. which are optional
   03:12 ogra i think you could use serpentine just fine for audio CDs ...
   03:12 janimo and hence can remain in universe
   03:12 ogra nope, it hasnt
   03:12 janimo is serp gnome dependent?
   03:13 ogra its pygtk, not sure if it needs gnome as well
   03:13 janimo yes. and gstreamer dependent
   03:13 ogra yep
   03:13 janimo gnome-python-extras
   03:13 janimo which comes with all gnome libs
   03:13 ogra it uses all the gstreamer pipelines to convert
   03:14 janimo ogra, so you considered graveman at UDU?
   03:14 janimo for what? edubuntu?
   03:14 ogra nope, at UDU there was no edubuntu :)
   03:14 ogra i had to care for the "audio cd burning" spec
   03:15 janimo ogra, form what I see it depends on libmad for mp3
   03:15 janimo whic is in main
   03:15 janimo so it would mean crippling if it had to be shipped right?
   03:15 ogra which will get dropped before release
   03:15 janimo is it? ok
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   03:16 janimo do you know if xmms too ?
   03:16 ogra thats what pitti told me at least
   03:16 ogra all gtk1 apps should be gone already...
   03:16 ogra is xmms still there ?
   03:16 janimo they are not apparently
   03:16 ogra strange
   03:17 ogra i know it was on the list ... i think pitti cared for it, poke him
   03:18 janimo libmad does not dep on gtk1.2 why is it slated for demotion
   03:18 janimo bc patent issues affect only shippability not main-ness. or not?
   03:19 janimo nomed, see imporvised meeting ;)
   03:19 nomed ehehe
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   03:20 janimo ogra, see in dev what tseng says
   03:20 janimo kde holds a ref on libmad, cannot go :)
   03:21 ogra yup, saw it ...
   03:21 ogra but i'm not sure thats final ...
   03:22 janimo ok
   03:22 ogra because i'm sure nobody wants to ship libmad in our enterprise release if possible
   03:23 janimo ok. we'll see about graveman then. but we won't modify it.
   03:23 nomed janimo, about plugins to remove ..
   03:23 janimo let alone cripple it
   03:24 janimo nomed, yes last time I gave kamion a list
   03:24 nomed i'm waitin upstreamer .. but ..
   03:24 nomed ahh perfect
   03:24 janimo some of them were removed (toys, old xfdesktop) some not
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   03:24 janimo I may have given an incomplete list
   03:24 nomed i was saying .. the ones that are already within xfce4-panel
   03:24 nomed can be removed for sure ..
   03:24 janimo will reping him (showdesktop, windowlist, panel-menu)
   03:24 janimo anything else later if not ported
   03:27 nomed janimo, i think there isn't that much to say untill we'll not test the isos ..
   03:27 janimo right
   03:27 janimo so anything else that needs discussion
   === Gloubiboulga is sorry to be late
   03:28 nomed i think so
   === sivang notes this looks like a Xubuntu meeting
   03:28 nomed hi sivang
   03:28 sivang hey nomed :)
   03:30 sivang ah, Xubuntu meeting is in 30 minutes
   03:30 sivang cool
   03:30 Seveas sivang, 90 minutes
   03:30 Seveas @schedule amsterdam
   03:30 Ubugtu Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 16:00: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 18:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
   03:30 janimo -30 minutes
   03:30 Seveas 14:00 UTC is in 30 minutes
   03:30 Seveas (not 90)
   03:30 janimo hmm?
   03:31 janimo AHA
   03:31 Seveas daylight savings time confusion
   03:31 janimo summer time switch here
   03:31 nomed janimo, the same :)
   03:31 janimo nomed di you know?
   03:31 Gloubiboulga here too janimo
   03:31 Seveas Wed Mar 29 13:31:37 UTC 2006
   03:31 Seveas that's the time now
   03:32 janimo Sivang and others who missed this short meeting blame astronomers/media/government
   03:32 janimo we cannot repeat it :)
   === janimo understands now why yesterday TB meeting was not started 5 minutes after it was supposed too
   03:33 janimo in short todays summary was:
   03:33 janimo 1)tango icon issue
   03:33 janimo we are waiting fro feedback from Daniel Holbach and canonical people
   03:33 janimo to see if it is ok to have tango in main
   03:34 ogra janimo, edubuntu-artwork already contains tango...
   03:34 janimo another ad-hoc issue was discussed
   03:34 janimo ogra, it's in universe
   03:34 ogra (a special variant=
   03:34 janimo the icon theme
   03:34 ogra nope, its in edubuntu-artwork (included)
   03:34 janimo well yes, since tango means at least 3 things
   03:34 janimo tango-icon-theme I mean
   03:35 ogra yes, we ship tango-brown in the artwork package ...
   03:35 janimo summary continued: cd burning app
   03:35 sivang janimo: so now is Xubuntu meeting??
   03:35 sivang :-)
   === sivang is confused
   03:35 janimo sivang, well yes since we did not know that UTC shifted under us
   03:36 janimo so we started at 13:00 apparently
   03:36 janimo with nomed :)
   03:36 nomed janimo, in that case we can inherit xubuntu-icons from edubuntu-icons
   03:36 janimo but there was not much discussion really
   03:36 janimo nomed, I am fine with that
   03:36 janimo but does it mean edubuntu colors?
   03:36 nomed no
   03:36 janimo then what does inherot mean in this context?
   03:36 nomed it means few icons within xubuntu-artwork
   03:37 janimo fallback icons no?
   03:37 ogra nomed, its no that easy, either you include edubuntu-artwork or we split out a separate icon theme package
   03:37 nomed i'll take a look on that pkge
   03:37 ogra but the latter will have the same problems as tango-icon-theme
   03:37 janimo ogra, well the icon theme should have been separate from start
   03:37 janimo for reuse anyway
   03:37 nomed ogra, yes i know
   03:37 janimo ogra, indeed
   03:37 janimo we need to promote a not yet in main icon theme anyway
   03:38 ogra janimo, since it wasnt planned to be reused anywhere its fine as is ...
   03:38 janimo if we do not use stock ubuntu or gnome or one that is there already
   03:38 nomed i'm fine with human theme
   03:38 nomed or whatever
   03:38 janimo nomed, upstream xfce said they'd stick with rodent for 4.4 default right?
   03:38 janimo me too
   03:38 nomed the problem is that if we need new icons
   03:39 nomed we'll not have artists working on that
   03:39 janimo nomed, which icons do we need which others did not need so far?
   03:39 janimo how did gnome do this so far
   03:39 janimo with gnome-icon-theme and non standard names?
   03:39 nomed janimo, xfce icons for ex
   03:39 nomed and rodent is not that complete
   03:40 nomed that's why i think xubutnu needs an icon theme
   03:40 janimo yes
   03:40 janimo the tango people you talked too
   03:40 nomed whatever we'll choose .. we'll probably need to add icons
   03:41 janimo do they work on some icons regardless of it's inclusion in xubuntu?
   03:41 janimo or they don;t bother until they're sure we need tango
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   03:41 janimo and the work they're supposed to do, is it within the standard tango-icon-theme if there is such a standard
   03:41 nomed janimo, they want to work just on tango like icons theme
   03:41 janimo aha tango guidelines
   03:41 nomed as that's what they do normally
   03:42 nomed exactly
   03:42 janimo but a new xubuntu theme different from tango icon theme itself
   03:42 nomed janimo, that's not needed ..
   03:42 nomed considering we'll not have the time
   03:42 janimo use those as fallback?
   03:42 nomed yes
   03:43 janimo does any distro ship with tango as default? I suppose it's too young still
   03:44 nomed janimo, there are many variants ..
   03:44 nomed and many artists that are working on those icons actively
   03:45 janimo and how do we know what to pick? whch themes are ready? do they duplicate work?
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   03:45 janimo I wish tango and upstream xfce struck a deal or something
   03:46 nomed janimo, most of xfce devel are already using tango
   03:46 janimo I wonder why they do not choose it as default instead of rodent
   03:46 nomed and 2 main tango artists ... would be happy to work on xubuntu icons theme
   03:47 janimo ok
   03:47 janimo then just go ahead with this
   03:47 nomed i guess it's possible to get some results ...
   03:47 janimo it is better than current situation when we just wait anyway :)
   03:47 nomed yep
   03:48 nomed and we'll need more artwork stuff
   03:48 nomed as espresso theme .. gfxboot wallpaper
   03:48 janimo thos artists do they have some icons ready to show, screenshots etc so we/xfce upstream can see if it's ok as default?
   03:48 janimo nomed, sure
   03:48 janimo gfxboot kamion said he'd do as it's install CD stuff
   03:48 janimo and once we have liveCD we look at espresso too
   03:49 nomed janimo, for gxfboot theme will need just to change some colors ..
   03:49 janimo What gtk engine do you think we should use?
   03:49 nomed i know gxfboot source
   03:49 janimo yes gfxboot is easy
   03:49 janimo compared to rest of artwork
   03:50 nomed janimo, xfce4
   03:50 nomed even if i like more ubuntulook
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   03:50 nomed i would know if it really slows down the system
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   03:50 janimo does xfce4 have anything special?
   03:51 janimo it was even asked recently on the m-l if it should be deprecated
   03:51 janimo I know is does some gradient but where I don;t know
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   03:51 nomed janimo, not sure about that
   03:51 Seveas janimo, to avoid confusion in the future:
   03:51 Seveas @now
   03:51 Ubugtu Current time in UTC: March 29 2006, 13:03:46
   03:52 sivang Seveas: good
   03:52 janimo Seveas: yeah, I won't forget. Not for 6 months that is
   03:52 janimo I had almost hardwired UTC+2 so did not think about it at all
   03:52 anstei Seveas: this clock seems wrong, it should be short before 14:00, shouldn't it?
   03:53 Seveas yes it should
   03:53 sivang but still we you guys started ahead of time
   03:53 Seveas odd
   03:53 sivang since 14:00 it one hour from now
   03:53 sivang :)
   03:54 Seveas @reload Webcal
   03:54 Seveas @now
   03:54 Ubugtu Current time in UTC: March 29 2006, 13:54:21
   03:54 Seveas (It had %m instead of %M)
   03:54 anstei
   03:56 Seveas (it recognizes timezones too, like @now amsterdam)
   03:57 Gloubiboulga janimo, about 2) Archiver ?
   03:58 janimo Gloubiboulga: nomed can talk about that :)
   03:58 Gloubiboulga :)
   03:58 janimo and which agenda are you looking at :)
   03:58 janimo last week's?
   03:58 Gloubiboulga nop, you've mentionned it a few minutes ago iirc
   03:59 janimo I think I said cd burner
   03:59 janimo graveman
   03:59 Gloubiboulga ah yeah... sorry :D
   03:59 janimo at least that;'s what I wanted to say
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   03:59 nomed Gloubiboulga, xarchiver should be ready for the end of the week
   03:59 janimo ogra said that graveman depends on mp3 stuff (libmad)
   03:59 Gloubiboulga nomed, ok
   03:59 janimo which may go to universe
   03:59 janimo Gloubiboulga: but since kubuntu uses libmad
   04:00 janimo it seems it will stay in main
   === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar
   21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
   04:00 janimo but we probbaly cannot ship libmad if it has mp3 pateneed stuff as part of garveman dpeendency
   04:00 janimo even though ubuntu may have done that by accident in the past
   04:01 janimo so we may not have any cd burner app in the default
   04:01 Gloubiboulga ok...
   04:01 Riddell can't you just split off the mp3 plugin?
   04:01 Riddell or is it not a plugin?
   04:02 janimo apparently it's not a plugin
   04:02 janimo links to libmad directly
   04:02 janimo but did not look close at all
   04:02 janimo mostly quoting ogra
   04:02 sivang janimo: you need cdburning app in Xubuntu?
   04:03 janimo sivang: not that badly
   04:03 janimo it'd be nice though
   04:03 ogra janimo, i didnt look at graveman sice hoary might be worth to take a look at changes :)
   04:03 sivang janimo: well, I might be able to throw something as HUB is already a mini cd burning app
   04:03 sivang janimo: could be sensible to throw some GUI on the already exisiting backend
   04:03 sivang janimo: but I can promise anything..
   04:04 janimo sivang: yes, but it may be too  late for dapper
   04:04 janimo I am not even sure about graveman's stability
   04:04 sivang sure
   04:04 janimo fixed a gllib crasher a while ago but may be others
   04:04 janimo this was easy since it did it always on startup :_
   04:04 janimo :)
   04:04 sivang heh
   04:05 nomed http://www.dsslive.org/bzr/python/python-burn/pyburn <-- this is a pure frontend to cdrecord ...
   04:05 nomed but i'll not have the time to complete it for sure
   04:05 Riddell sivang: they can just use k3b like all the ubuntu users do :)
   04:06 janimo yeah I guess so
   04:06 ogra pfft
   04:06 Gloubiboulga what is k3b ? ;)
   04:06 janimo I wonder when will there be a nice birner lib so people stop needing to call cdrecord
   04:07 janimo hmm typo but pronounced the same :)
   04:07 ogra Gloubiboulga, the burning app thats as big as your whole desktop ;)
   04:08 Gloubiboulga ogra, :)
   04:09 sivang Riddell: true :-)
   04:09 sivang Riddell: the number one linux burning app
   04:09 sivang janimo: I had this same discussion with pitti about a burner lib last night :-)
   === sivang wonders when k3b will have it's own lisp dialect
   04:09 janimo sivang, stop giving ideas to kde devels
   04:10 janimo they may take you seriously :)
   04:10 janimo what did pitti say about the lib?
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   04:13 janimo anything else todiscuss?
   04:14 nomed janimo, for we it's over :)
   04:14 nomed s/we/me
   04:14 janimo s/me/us/ :)
   04:14 janimo ok then see you next week