Xubuntu_2006-03-22
03:01 janimo ok let's start
03:01 janimo hello all
03:01 Gloubiboulga hi Jani
03:01 janimo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda
03:02 janimo hi Gauvain
03:02 janimo item 1) mail client
03:02 janimo it was discussed previously that we should go one of the sylpheeds
03:02 janimo preferebaly claws
03:03 nomed janimo, i agree
03:03 Gloubiboulga sounds logical, it's lighter than TB
03:03 nomed but maybe for dapper wouldn't it better to use thunderbird ?
03:03 janimo there is still no mail client in the default desktop
03:03 nomed i mean ... any problem to get it in main ?
03:03 janimo I summarized lightly the pros/cons I see with sylpheed/t-bird no client
03:03 janimo on that pahe
03:04 janimo nomed, not as much of a problem of getting it in main
03:04 janimo s/pahe/page/
03:04 janimo but subsequent support
03:04 janimo I did not hear bad things about s-claws
03:04 janimo but did not use it either
03:05 janimo I do not know how it stands re stability and security
03:05 nomed from what i know it should be ok
03:05 janimo I remember Colin (sylpheed claws developer) assured us on xubuntu-devel that all is good
03:05 nomed yep i remember
03:05 janimo so the only con is that it is not in main and we'd put another extra package in the list
to support
03:06 janimo I am wondering if this is worth it considering that most non-techincal people will not use
pop/imap/nntp AFAIK
03:06 nomed i think xubuntu should have a mail client
03:06 janimo and those who do will pick their favourite client anyway
03:07 janimo nomed: that's waht I was thinking about. should it?
03:07 nomed sylpheed claws as first for me
03:07 nomed if there are problems ... thunderbird
03:07 nomed but we should have one
03:08 janimo how do we know there are problems
03:08 janimo and what are problems in this context?
03:08 janimo the latest claws is still not in dapper form what I saw
03:08 nomed we'd put another extra package in the list to support<--
03:09 janimo neither claws not t-bird do what evolution does not by default at least (cal, palm sync,
talk to exchange etc)
03:09 janimo so the corpporate desktop scenario where users must use such a client is not valid imho
03:09 janimo whereas normal people mostly use the web
03:10 janimo a web interface for mail I mean
03:10 nomed yes that's true
03:10 irvin janimo: i agree with that
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03:10 janimo what I don't know is how many people would use a pop/imap client just as naturally as they
do gaim/firefox
03:10 nomed but on a distro i would expect a mail client anyway ...
03:10 janimo it is not the tipical non-geek use case
03:11 janimo nomed, yes that expectance I am aware of, was just thinking it may need revisiting
03:11 nomed janimo, at the moment there is not a mail client that can do the same as evolution
03:11 janimo kmail and evo are shipped not necessarily because of this expectance but because they are
core parts of gnoom/kde
03:11 nomed from what i know
03:12 nomed but thunderbird exists even for windows users
03:12 janimo nomed, that is a blessing actually :)
03:12 janimo re evolution not windows
03:12 janimo nomed, s-claws runs on win32 too
03:12 janimo original sylpheed does at least
03:13 nomed it should yes
03:13 nomed but i think most of windows users uses thunderbird if not outlook
03:13 janimo so maybe we should release the first ISO's with no mail client and state that in the
announcement
03:13 nomed yep
03:13 janimo if the feedback is mostly negative recosider
03:14 janimo I find t-birds interface more usable than sylpheeds so that is a plus
03:14 janimo too bad it's not as light
03:14 janimo other opinions?
03:15 ranf Is mutt in main?
03:15 nomed as gnu/linux user i would have claws
03:15 janimo ranf, I suppose but that's not GUI
03:15 nomed but as new gnu/linux user i guess i would be happy to see thunderbird
03:15 janimo opinions whether to have a mail client by default or not for now
03:15 janimo not which one to pick
03:16 janimo nomed, indeed the emphasis should be on new users as with the rest of the desktop
03:16 nomed well ... i think we should have one as i told
03:16 janimo the more experienced ones know they way around to pick their favourite
03:16 nomed janimo, what i think is that if galago will be part of dapper +1
03:16 nomed then we should follow claws development
03:17 nomed but for dapper thunderbird is the best one i think
03:17 janimo nomed, do they collaborate or why?
03:18 janimo galago and claws I mean
03:18 nomed janimo, when the claws devel contacted xubuntu
03:18 nomed i asked if it was possible to integrate galago
03:18 nomed and he told he didn't know that stuff
03:18 nomed but he was happy to work on that
03:19 janimo nomed, ah ok. Anyway we'll see if galago will be part of dapper +1 first
03:19 nomed that's why i was thinking claws should be the xubuntu mail client
03:19 nomed and that's why i think at the moment thunderbird is the best one
03:19 janimo but since galago is not here yet that cannot be a reason for claws at this moment
03:19 janimo ok
03:20 janimo item 2) xrachiver
03:20 janimo not much to discuss here right?
03:20 nomed yep
03:20 janimo seems well on track with upstream collaborating
03:21 nomed exactly
03:21 janimo Gloubiboulga: do you know what the exact problems are with xkb?
03:21 janimo does upstream test on dapper by any chance?
03:22 Gloubiboulga janimo, yes, it doesn't detect the different keymaps
03:22 Gloubiboulga he works on debian unstable
03:22 Gloubiboulga I try to see how he could use libxkeyboard
03:22 janimo ok that's close enough
03:22 Gloubiboulga libxklavier*
03:22 janimo :)
03:22 janimo so it does not yet work for him either on debian?
03:23 irvin can i butt in a quick question (i hope it's not offtopic)... i only saw abiword as the
office suite in xubuntu, is there a plan to include others (e.g., gnumeric)?
03:23 Gloubiboulga it does work for him, but the plugin doesn't manage all the config possibilities of X
03:23 janimo irvin, gnumeric will probably be on the CD but not by default
03:23 janimo as it uses gnome deps which so far we had not time to tackle
03:24 irvin i see
03:24 janimo upstream is buildable without gnome but the debian packaging does not take advantage of
this
03:24 janimo irvin, do you think it is a porb if it is not installed by default?
03:24 janimo Gloubiboulga: ok but he'll probably figure it out I guess.
03:24 Gloubiboulga janimo, yes, I think he will
03:24 irvin janimo: yes i think so
03:25 janimo irvin, why?
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03:26 janimo the speardsheet is one of the apps I also think are not for most regular users
03:26 janimo unlike a word processor
03:26 janimo hence the lower priority in getting it in shape
03:27 irvin janimo: i beg to differ, but i see a lot of spreadsheet users on low-end computers
03:27 janimo irvin, fair enough
03:27 irvin janimo: there should be at least a word processor and a spreadsheet app in xubuntu
03:28 janimo but aren;t they more specialized users than average home user?
03:28 irvin janimo: personally i use more often, as i deal with numbers (engineering work) all the time
03:28 janimo like, office people and such
03:28 janimo ok, engineers, clerks etc
03:28 janimo but gramma? :)
03:28 nomed janimo, students in general may need it ....
03:29 janimo as with the email app I am trying to think not in terms of what a regular advert looks for
an os (document,spreadsheets,music, mail)
03:29 janimo but actually what is getting used more often
03:30 janimo especially in schools, net cafes, shared terminal in libraries and such
03:30 nomed janimo, yes i understand
03:30 janimo but I know it is essential for some users so it i=definitely is on the CD
03:30 janimo I am just wondering about the default install
03:31 janimo and the only thing preventing the latter is that gnumeric stil has gnome deps
03:31 nomed janimo, gnumeric is not gnome free
03:31 irvin janimo: what's wrong with having it installed by default?
03:31 nomed so ..
03:31 nomed we can work on it .. but we 're still few devels
03:31 janimo irvin, we had a semi-official policy for xubuntu
03:31 nomed i hope for dapper +1 this will change
03:31 irvin i guess we'll have to look for an alternative to gnumeric
03:31 janimo not having gnome/kde apps in the defaqult install
03:31 janimo to keep install slim
03:32 janimo irvin, no gnomeric is the best alternaive I am sure no need for alternatives
03:32 Gloubiboulga it looks like gnumeric can be built without gnome stuff, someone tested this already ?
03:32 janimo Gloubiboulga: I know it works since it runs on windows :)
03:32 Gloubiboulga in this case, why not creating a gnumeric-gtk package ?
03:32 janimo I talked to the debian maintainer and he said he'd take clean patches to make a
gnumeric-gtk binary too
03:32 janimo but it is not too easy
03:33 Gloubiboulga ok
03:33 janimo since it depends on libgoffice
03:33 janimo which can also build without gnome
03:33 janimo so we need to 1) make a goffice and goffice-gtk
03:33 janimo then a gnumeric-gtk which uses goffice-gtk
03:33 janimo it is actually doable just was a mess when I tried last time
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03:34 janimo given the interest, the 6 extra weeks and that I'd also like gnumeric installed by default
I think this needs another try
03:34 Gloubiboulga yep
03:34 janimo Gloubiboulga: would you be interested? :)
03:35 Gloubiboulga yes, I am :)
03:35 nomed cool!
03:35 irvin \o/ for Gloubiboulga
03:35 janimo ok let's discuss this after the meeting
03:35 janimo which may be right now :)
03:35 Gloubiboulga I'll call for help if I fail ;)
03:35 janimo \0/ for Gloubiboulga
03:35 Gloubiboulga janimo, sorry I have to leave right now (already late)
03:36 janimo ideally we'd cooperate with upstream debian packager since he was open to the idea
03:36 janimo just did not want to do it himself
03:36 janimo Gloubiboulga: np
03:36 janimo we can discuss another time
03:36 Gloubiboulga ok
03:36 Gloubiboulga cu later
03:36 janimo irvin: ok so thanks for prodding we'll take a shot at tthis
03:36 irvin ok
03:36 irvin janimo: no prob
03:37 janimo ok if there's nothing else to talk about
03:38 nomed janimo, shouldn't be removed from mirrors old pkges ?
03:38 janimo we can end the meeting
03:38 janimo nomed, right we should
03:38 janimo but that needs communicating with LP admins or whoever else
03:38 janimo I think there's a wikipage with candidates for removal
03:38 janimo I don;t know which is it
03:38 janimo and I think someone regularly purges it
03:38 janimo but this may just be a myth
03:39 nomed any of them here ?
03:39 janimo we definitely need to purge our old packages before release
03:39 nomed we can list all of them and ask then ..
03:39 janimo I don;t think any xfce package is put there,no
03:39 janimo nomed, sure
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03:39 janimo the ones we talked about last time right?
03:39 janimo old plugins + toys
03:40 nomed yes
03:40 janimo if you find that page feel free to add them :)
03:40 nomed k :)
03:40 janimo but with plugins which are not explicitely superceded wait a bit later
03:40 janimo since they may get ported
03:40 nomed sure
03:40 janimo by dapper
03:41 janimo ok
03:41 janimo thanks
03:41 nomed cu next meeting
03:41 janimo ok, end of meeting I'll try to summarize it and send a mail
03:41 janimo bye all
03:41 nomed bye
03:42 ranf byeMeetingLogs/Xubuntu_2006-03-22 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:35:04 by localhost)