Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

• Current status
  • What's happened, happening, planned
• Tools and methods
  • Discuss the method used for screencasting
  • How can we streamline the processes and make it easier for people to get involved in our team?
  • Should we care what tools people use
• Keeping current
  • Should we mandate all new screencasts should be done on Feisty, is there a place for Edgy/Dapper?
  • How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline?
  • Should we re-record screencasts when their content becomes obsolete/incorrect?
• Communication
  • Should we have a separate mailing list, focus discussion of screencasts
  • Separate IRC channel
• Internationalisation
  • How can we help people to translate the screencasts
• Accessibility
  • Should we add subtitles?
• Any other business
• Next meeting schedule

Log

TZ UTC+1

09:00   popey   Right then, here we go!
09:00   popey   Anyone about?
09:00   benanzo here
09:00   Coli1   yes, i am here. (Kent, UK)
09:00   davmor2 here sir
09:01   Owdgit  lurking
09:01   popey   Groovy. Okay, welcome to the first Meet of the Ubuntu Screencast Team
09:01   popey   The agenda is up, if anyone would like to add to it, feel free to edit under "Any other business" and we will get to it at the end.
09:02   popey   Any questions, feel free to bring them up at any time.
09:02   popey   ok, to the first item:- * Current status
09:02   popey     * What's happened, happening, planned
09:02   popey   What happened: I made some screencasts for the Ubuntu-UK LoCo team, Matt East suggested we move it to the Documentation team so that it is not so UK-centric. Started out on my personal webspace - quickones.org, now moved to doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts
09:03   popey   Clearly other people have been making screencasts before me, I am by no means the first here
09:03   popey   youtoob and google are littered with them
09:04   popey   However I wanted to set a standard and have a format that we could use for numerous screencasts over an array of topics
09:04   popey   which leads to:-
09:04   popey   Happening: I have been working on fine tuning the method we use to create screencasts. The method is not perfect, but yields good results. Working also on getting the specifications written up for new screencasts, getting others to write some too. Also great input for new slides for the start/end of screencasts.
09:04   popey   I punched out a load of screencasts back in december, but since we became the "screencast team" this has dried up, partly so that we can get a process right so that others can contribute
09:04   popey   (more on that in a bit)
09:05   popey   Planned: Have asked for screencasts.ubuntu.com - no word yet on when/whether we can have it as a more permanent home. Of course we also need to churn out a load more high quality screencasts. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Roadmap is of course worth mentioning.
09:05   popey   the key thing at the moment from my point of view is 1) get the process nailed down, 2) get lots of specs written, 3) churn out lots of screencasts
09:06   popey   now when I say "churn" it's of course important we keep the quality high when making these
09:06   popey   I dont want us to turn into youtoob with hundreds of beryl screencasts and none on the real basics..
09:06   popey   So that's "current status"..
09:06   popey   any comments..
09:07   benanzo what's the process like for getting the domain screencasts.ubuntu.com?
09:07   tonytiger       Only to say good work so far.
09:08   popey   ta tonytiger
09:08   popey   benanzo: actually I don't know, mdke is dealing with that
09:08   popey   we will likely just get it as an alias and point it to the current site
09:08   benanzo do they want to see some content first?
09:08   popey   we have some content:- http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/
09:08   popey   we could always do with more of course :)
09:09   tonytiger       :)
09:09   benanzo right.
09:09   popey   but like I say, I'd like us to have that process nailed so people can actually say "yeah, I can do that"
09:09   popey   at the moment I am getting comments like "process to complex" "cant be bothered with qemu" etc
09:09   popey   or "xvidcap too slow"
09:09   popey   but more on the tools/process in a bit :)
09:09   tonytiger       Is all the necessary stuff packaged in Feisty?
09:10   tonytiger       Oh yeah.
=== tonytiger shuts up
09:10   Coli1   i have a 'xvidcap too slow' problem
09:10   popey   will look at that in a sec Coli1, thanks.
09:10   benanzo I have the bug in X wont let my macbook playback hi-res vids
09:10   popey   yeah, that seems common :(
09:11   popey   intel chipsets seem to get that a lot
09:11   popey   I am guessing the macbook isnt intel graphics?
09:11   benanzo it is intel
09:11   popey   ah, ok, well thats good in a way
09:11   popey   its a known problem as opposed to an unknown problem
09:11   popey   </donald_rumsfeld>
09:11   benanzo I sorted it by just playing back on a dif machine..we discussed it on the mailing list
09:11   willvdl still a problem :)
09:12   popey   of course, and still a valid concern
=== Coli1 was thinking about donald too. :-)
09:12   popey   :)
09:12   popey   ok, so back to the first item
09:12   popey   my basic question is, do you think the roadmap looks sane?
09:12   Coli1   yes. i do.
09:12   popey   if you have anything you think should be on the roadmap, shout
09:12   tonytiger       Yes.
09:12   tonytiger       Is the roadmap chronological?
09:12   popey   roughly
09:12   benanzo looks good.
09:13   tonytiger       Would be nice for the dubs to be sooner, IMHO
09:13   popey   some parts may be paralleli(s|z)ed
09:13   popey   well the dubbing cant happen until they're made can it?
09:13   popey   oh, before the magazines.. I see
09:13   popey   and dvd
09:13   tonytiger       yeah
09:13   popey   yeah, you're right, I see
=== tonytiger nods
09:13   tonytiger       \o/
09:13   davmor2 If you are doing translation work would it be possible to just do the video section and not the audio
09:14   popey   ok, changed that
09:14   popey   well, tha audio gives the translator a clue what you were on about when you made it
09:14   davmor2 true
09:14   popey   I am only guessing, but I suspect that might be useful for a translator?
09:14   tonytiger       I'd have thought so.;
09:14   popey   I only speak English so am unaware of those issues
09:14   willvdl what about the front/back slides? would need translating too?
09:14   benanzo perhaps a spot for video with no audio and just some text transcripts for another to translate
09:14   popey   yes, willvdl
09:15   popey   so I suspect it would make sense for us to make the videos availabale with no slides front/back
09:15   tonytiger       Makes sense.
09:15   popey   so they can be localised and added in later along with the audio, good point
09:15   tonytiger       Just the video and then versions in each language.
09:15   willvdl or at least a logical "black space" divide so taht an editor can cut easily
09:15   popey   I tend to keep copies of the "masters" without the audio and front/back on anyway, so thats not a problem
09:16   tonytiger       Would be reasonable to expect the creator of the video to produce one in their own language though, to make it clear what they were thinking when they created it.
09:16   davmor2 I think it adds to the to the professional image if there are fewer voices
09:16   popey   there would be only one voice
09:16   popey   when I say dub, I mean replace
09:16   tonytiger       Perhaps we need to employ Tom Baker to voice them? ;)
09:16   popey   should I make that more clear?
09:16   tonytiger       Perhaps "redub in other languages"
09:16   popey   so when listening to the french version you would hear only french, not a mix of english and french
09:17   Coli1   yes i did not know they would be dubbed with nicer voice
09:17   popey   haha
09:17   benanzo I understand.  The original creator can make the screencast in full, then offer transcripts and just the video for someone else to translate.
09:17   popey   yes, that makes sense
09:17   davmor2 no I mean that if there are a couple of people doing the speech for each translation that it adds to the uniformity
=== Coli1 cancels his voice coaching lessons.
=== tonytiger nods
09:17   popey   quite a bit of work to create a transcript
09:18   popey   ahh davmor2 get you now
09:18   tonytiger       And then translating it.
09:18   benanzo that's true, maybe just some bullet points
09:18   tonytiger       I suspect that what davmor2 suggests is how it would work out anyway.
09:18   willvdl it really shouldn't be that hard for an experienced user to translate but it would help for consistency
09:18   tonytiger       i.e. a french speaker interested in contributing comes along and offers to dub a load of screencasts.
09:19   popey   ok, this kinda covers the "internationalisation" section well
09:19   davmor2 that way you can get loads of video of the same standard then a couple of good voice overs for each video
09:19   popey   in fact if someone *just* recorded the audio, that would be fine
09:19   popey   they could send a WAV of the right duration to us for dubbing
09:19   benanzo realistically, anyone can pull down a complete video, strip the audio and the slides and remaster it in a different language.  Are we just looking for a better way to streamline the translation process
09:19   popey   rather than them have to do the dubbing themselves
09:19   tonytiger       popey: Good idea.
09:19   popey   kinda
09:20   popey   anyone can benanzo yes, but should we make them do all that
09:20   popey   all we "need" them to do is translate and record their voice
09:20   popey   if we dub then it saves a lot of effort on their part
09:20   tonytiger       It would be good if someone could just record themselves using Audacity and submit it to someone to do the hard work.
09:20   Coli1   i agree
09:20   popey   they dont need to download the full size mpeg, just the ogg - or even watch the flash video
09:20   popey   yes tonytiger
09:21   popey   ok, we have deviated slightly :)_
09:21   popey   anything else on the roadmap before we move on?
09:22   tonytiger       No
09:22   popey   ok, next item is:  * Tools and methods
09:22   popey     * Discuss the method used for screencasting
09:22   popey   Currently I use QEMU to host a virtual machine on my desktop. I record that window using xvidcap to record to an AVI file at 1024x768.
09:22   popey   I then use various tools to convert to other formats and generally get them ready for distribution.
09:23   popey   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts shows how I record screencasts. This page needs some love, and could probably benefit from being broken up into easy steps rather than being one monolithic page.
09:23   popey   It is also possible to run the demo on another machine and connect via VNC, then record the VNC client window using xvidcap (or whatever).
09:23   popey   Discuss :)
09:23   willvdl the 1024x768 thing...
09:23   willvdl I find it still hard to read, perhaps because of the encoding
09:24   popey   on which video? flash/ogg or avi?
09:24   willvdl both
09:24   willvdl well, flash is quite lossy
09:24   popey   flash I expect, because it gets downsized as well as compressed
09:24   popey   ogg/avi shouldn't be too bad
09:24   tonytiger       I find the ogg fine.
09:25   willvdl the other thing is that it makes the vids quite large...
09:25   benanzo ogg/avi is fine.  I don't think we can expect too much from flv anyway
09:25   popey   it does make them large
09:25   popey   indeed, flv is a "nice to have" for the youtubers
09:25   benanzo right
09:25   willvdl so for us Africans, it is very inaccessible
09:25   popey   the large videos are a worry
09:26   popey   there is work we can do there though
09:26   popey   we can either downsize the video (makes it less readable)
09:26   popey   or we can drop the bitrate (I think? tonytiger ?)
09:26   tonytiger       Yeah.
09:26   popey   I have used the default settings when using ffmpeg2theora
09:26   tonytiger       Again you sacrifice clarity in doing so.
09:26   willvdl bitrate I reckon. there is not that much "action"
09:26   popey   I suspect dropping the bitrate for the audio and video would help quite a bit
09:26   Shish   I would think 800x600 is plenty; and an upsized small video is easier to read than a downsized large one~
09:27   tonytiger       Audio can be pushed very low.
09:27   popey   I need to test that out
09:27   popey   thats a good point Shish
09:27   Coli1   i think there should still be a high quality version though, for us bandwidth fat cats.
09:27   Shish   Could audio be speex?
09:27   popey   some dialogs dont fit in 800x600 though, its only a few though
09:27   popey   Shish: I guess we are limited by the container formats we use, ogg, avi, flv
09:27   tonytiger       Shish: The codec is sort of irrelevant TBH
09:28   willvdl I would like to have 800x600 as a preference.
09:28   popey   ah, so we could use vorbis but very low bitrate
09:28   tonytiger       That's not to say speex couldn't be one of them, I AFAIK you can't use it in video containers (?)
09:28   Coli1   i vote for 800x600 that is what i did my attempts in.
09:28   benanzo I've never tried
09:28   tonytiger       popey: Yes, 56kps is probably the lowest reasonable.
09:28   Shish   eh? It's an audio codec, you can put it in whatever container you want...
09:28   popey   ok, I'm getting an 800x600 vibe here :)
09:28   popey   Shish: only if the player plays it
09:29   popey   I have seen some players not like codec A in container B
09:29   tonytiger       popey: Personally I prefer 1024x768, but I accept I have a lot more bandwidth than some places.
09:29   Shish   yeah, that's what I was getting at with my first point -- does ubuntu support it out of the box?
09:29   popey   we need these things to play in totem to be first target
09:29   willvdl also default preference for containers/codecs/formats that come "out-the-box"
09:29   popey   yeah, which is why ogg/theora/vorbis are #1 choice for us
09:29   tonytiger       I think vorbis/theora covers the Linux market.
09:29   willvdl viewer should not *have* to download codecs if they can't
09:29   popey   agreed willvdl
09:29   Shish   speex is from the ogg group, same as vorbis
09:29   popey   Windows/Mac is a whole other story
09:30   willvdl urk, true
09:30   popey   Shish: does ffmpeg "do" speex?
09:30   popey   I can do some tests with the mpeg master videos I have, and post some comparative sizes
09:30   tonytiger       popey: Doesn't seem to.
09:30   popey   I can also do some tests with 800x600 compared with 1024x768
09:31   popey   Shish: what programs can create speex?
09:31   Shish   ummm, speexenc? I haven't actually done much with it <_<;
09:31   davmor2 why not do 2 1024x768 for dvd/cd and 800x600 for tinternet
09:31   popey   davmor2: then we would have to re-record everything
09:31   popey   if we have to have two versions of every video
09:32   davmor2 true
09:32   popey   better to have one size fits all (which it wont)
09:32   willvdl there can be an exception for dialogues that don't fit 800x600
09:32   popey   we cant please everyone, but to impose a silly-large resolution on people with bandwidth-impaired connections seems wrong to me
09:32   willvdl (and maybe it will make developers rethink their dialogs)
09:32   popey   we need to listen to people on low speed connections, because they may well be the kinds of people who cant afford training
09:32   willvdl ++
09:33   popey   I will run a machine at 800x600 for a while and see how much doesnt fit
09:33   popey   ok, so, in conclusion we need to a) update the process documents, b) look to use more efficient encoding, c) look to use lower resolution for the videos?
09:34   popey   800x600 also has te benefit that the person recording will have less load on their system
09:34   benanzo I've recorded a couple screencasts by using a separate user account instead of qemu.  It really only works as long as you're demonstrating superficial things, not like installing packages or other invasive stuff.
09:34   davmor2 good plan but why not try doing the same set of vids in both sizes to pick the best for quality then vote on it for the next meeting?
09:35   popey   benanzo: that's a good method, I have tried that too
09:35   popey   well, we already know how good 1024x768 looks
09:35   popey   I just need to make some 800x600 to compare
09:35   popey   plus there is the time factor
09:35   willvdl davmor2, ++
09:35   popey   I can create one screencast in both resolutions
09:36   popey   a nice simple 2 minute one, would that be okay?
09:36   tonytiger       Sounds good.
09:36   benanzo pending the results, I vote for 800x600 because I have bugs
09:36   popey   then encode in diffierent formats and so on
09:36   popey   hehe, understandable benanzo
09:36   popey   you are not the only one
09:36   popey   that bug has sent a few people nuts!
09:36   popey   ok, shall we move on?
09:36   benanzo no kidding
09:36   benanzo righto
09:37   popey   some of this we have covered
09:37   popey   I will paste in anyway so we all are on the same page:-
09:37   popey     * How can we streamline the processes and make it easier for people to get involved in our team?
09:37   davmor2 sound good then just throw up a poll on the site, which can log the votes
09:37   popey   I appreciate some people find xvidcap difficult / slow to use. I have been contacted by the author of xvidcap (Karl Beckers), I'm sure he would love to have some input from us as to how the product can be improved. I know other tools are available such as Istanbul and Recordmydesktop, and if others can use them, and achieve similar results as I do with xvidcap then go for it!
09:37   popey   ok davmor2
09:37   popey     * Should we care what tools people use
=== Shish humms, notes that ffmpeg claims to be able to capture from x11
09:38   popey   No, so long as the content created meets our criteria for quality and the videos can easily be converted to other formats for distribution, I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts.
09:38   benanzo I've never had good luck with istanbul
09:38   willvdl popey, the technical side is one. The proposal/review is another
09:38   popey   Shish: it can, yes
09:38   popey   Shish: http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/FfmpegOnly
09:38   popey   benanzo: me neither
09:38   Coli1   popey when you say ' I don't care what tools are used to create the screencasts.' does that include Windows???
09:39   popey   no
09:39   popey   :)
09:39   popey   well
09:39   Coli1   doh :-)
09:39   popey   thats a tricky one
09:39   popey   what do we think?
09:39   popey   personally I would rather use free tools
09:39   popey   should we forgive those you use tools like camtasia on windows?
09:39   popey   and let them contribute?
09:39   Coli1   i agree, but i have old machines :-( and xvidcap does not work for me.
09:40   popey   i think maybe I should relax that one, and say, go for it, do whatever works for you, to make demos
09:40   benanzo right, I think that's the point, but if non-free tools are used to essentially *promote* a free alternative, I think it's fine.
09:40   Coli1   i will try again to get ubuntu dual booting at work on my good pc.
09:40   Coli1   and then do screencasts after work.
09:40   popey   yes benanzo
09:41   tonytiger       popey: It depends on whether the screencasts project wants to be able to get the videos for their own archiving in a format like MPEG2.
09:41   popey   yeah, if the only result you can generate is .flv I am not interested :)
09:41   Coli1   but it was not working for me and staying at work is hard because people still think i am working and ask me stuff.
09:41   tonytiger       popey: Quite :)
09:42   popey   so for example wink is out, as is vnc2swf, because they only generate .flv
09:42   davmor2 what license are you publishing them under
09:42   popey   but if you send me an mpeg2 or avi of 800x600 at high bit rate I should not care how you made it
09:42   popey   davmor2: http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/license
09:42   Shish   is it just me, or is xvidcap not available as an ubuntu package?
09:42   popey   Shish: correct
09:42   popey   yet
09:42   popey   there is a deb for it
09:43   popey   http://sourceforge.net/projects/xvidcap/
09:43   popey   ok, I will clarify that stipulation
09:43   popey   is everyone happy with that? "we dont care how you make it, so long as its in a usable format and is of the quality we require"?
09:44   Shish   seems sensible
09:44   tonytiger       Yes.
09:44   Coli1   i agree. (but will try 'free tools and OS')
09:44   popey   ok, lets crack on..
09:44   popey   good man Coli1
09:44   benanzo right.
09:44   popey   if its too much pain, dont worry
09:44   popey   * Keeping current
09:44   popey     * Should we mandate all new screencasts should be done on Feisty, is there a place for Edgy/Dapper?
09:44   tonytiger       There's a place for Dapper.
09:44   popey   There probably is a place for Dapper and Edgy, especially as some will not upgrade yet to Feisty, especially corporate desktop users (although questionable whether they would gain as much from a screencast as a fresh new user). I would like to see as many Feisty screencasts as is technically possible.
09:44   Coli1   i support 6.06 LTS :-)
09:44   popey   Especially given there are such fundamental changes in feisty as the Gnome Control Center, the automatic codec grabber thing and binary packages in general.
09:45   popey   (note: I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about the relative merits of binary packages in ubuntu and the free-ness of it, that's not our concern as the screencast team really)
09:45   tonytiger       I think any current LTS release and whatever is the current release are the obvious choices.
09:45   Coli1   the Ubuntu Cd's are 6.06 so that is what people are picking up
09:45   davmor2 I think current and lts and only reproduce any intrim vids where things change massively
09:45   popey   true Coli1
09:45   Shish   "Get the latest version" is much simpler than "video X applies to ubuntu Y, video Z applies to ubuntu N, video G applies to ubuntu J"...
09:45   popey   heh
09:46   popey   we can tag videos on the site
09:46   Seeker` Perhaps there is a place for Dapper, as it is LTS, but if people are using edgy then perhaps they arent as interested in LTS, so edgy may be a bit of a wasted effort
09:46   popey   to show what versions they apply to
09:46   popey   ok, so I am hearing we do need to think about dapper, and current release is good too
09:46   tonytiger       yup
09:46   popey   maybe for current release we stick to stuff we know isnt massively changing?
09:46   popey   e.g. approprirate in edgy to demo how to use evolution for example
09:47   Coli1   i think 'generic' application stuff should be in LTS and then highlights or specials on the latest release.
09:47   popey   not appropriate might be codec downloading, because we know that is changing massively?
09:47   tonytiger       For stuff you produce in the next two months, you mean popey ?
09:47   Shish   depending on how close the next release is and how long we plan to work on screencasts before a big announcement, maybe LTS and current+1 would be more appropriate?
09:47   davmor2 lts is important in schools.  etc for stability
09:47   popey   current+1 can be somewhat hairy!
09:48   popey   and the UI can change pretty soon before a release
09:48   popey   I agree with Dapper and Current
09:48   tonytiger       davmor2: workplaces in general, I think
09:48   popey   but if someone wants to make a current+1 screencast I am not going to stop them
09:48   Shish   I mean if it's in feature freeze, ie, fairly stable
09:48   popey   sure Shish
09:48   popey   thats the plan :)
09:48   davmor2 well that's what the etc was for :)
09:49   tonytiger       Shish: The artwork for Edgy changed two days before release. :)
09:49   benanzo I've been doing screencasts on topics not incredibly cutting edge, so really it's fine do use any recent version since it will apply across current or near-future versions
09:49   popey   yeah, there are loads of topics which are nice and generic
09:50   popey   any other comments about releases?
09:50   davmor2 no covers it I think
09:50   popey   Ok, so we should target dapper and current, but current+1 is acceptable if we are close to a release?
09:51   tonytiger       s/dapper/lts/
09:51   popey   yes
09:51   popey   ok, next item:-
09:51   popey   * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline?
09:52   popey   This I do not know. :)
09:52   tonytiger       :)
09:52   benanzo so at what point are we re-recording old screencasts?  when the methods have changed or when a new version arrives (even though the method is the same)
09:52   popey   benanzo: thats another item we will come to in a mo
09:52   Shish   when following the instructions stops working, I'd say
09:53   tonytiger       "when there's a significant and noticable difference" IMHO
09:53   benanzo k
09:53   popey   actually
09:53   popey   yes talk about this now
09:53   popey   we will come back to talking to the developers
09:53   popey   I agree, if something is wrong/ stops working / is no longer appropriate it may need re-recording
09:54   benanzo ok, so the dapper LTS would be fine to stay posted even after the next LTS arrives as long as the methods haven't changed?  or are we planning to do a new vid just for that version?
09:54   tonytiger       Does the old version then get dropped from teh site?
09:54   popey   benanzo: we could keep both
09:54   Shish   I would think "marked as 'only applies to version X'" rather than dropped
09:55   popey   agreed
09:55   benanzo right.
09:55   tonytiger       Shish: good idea
09:55   popey   we can tag on the site, so can use version number as a tag to show that
09:55   popey   we can also put in the notes "for release x+1, see this screencast also:-"
09:56   popey   so in general we dont delete stuff
09:56   popey   if we were pressing a cd/dvd we might consider leaving out older stuff for space reasons
09:56   popey   make sense?
09:56   benanzo y
09:56   tonytiger       yes
09:56   popey   ok, moving on,
09:57   popey   * How do we best keep in contact with the developers to find out what is new within apps, and what new apps are being delivered, or in the pipeline?
09:57   popey   I am thinking, when reading developers blogs, we are mindful of the screencast project
09:57   Coli1   popey some sort of screencasts newsletter???
09:57   popey   so that as people blog about new stuff, we add it to the requests page
09:57   popey   I am more thinking, "how do we find out whats coming up, so that we can be ready to screencast it"
09:57   tonytiger       I think that will follow pretty naturally with even a handful of interested people in the project.
09:58   Coli1   sent to developers so they know what we are demoing or want to demo
09:58   Shish   yeah, I can't think of a clean way of doing it automatically -- just paying attention to developers and having a public to-do list would be ok
09:58   popey   Coli1: not sure theyd be interested :)
09:58   popey   yes Shish
09:59   benanzo I think the majority of effort on this should go toward informing them that this project exists.  I think they would find it in their own interest to keep us informed
09:59   popey   Ok, so nothing we could specifically do, but keep eyes open
09:59   davmor2 could you not get the devs putting new stuff in to drop it on a wiki or is there not a change log
09:59   linuxphotogeek  There is a "What's New in Fiesty" page on the wiki. Rich with ideas
10:00   popey   you got a url linuxphotogeek ?
10:00   linuxphotogeek  So there will be a Whats new in Fiesty+1 page.
=== linuxphotogeek looking
10:00   benanzo brb
10:00   willvdl well, apart from decyphering LP specs :)
10:00   popey   heh
10:01   popey   ok, well I dont see this as a high priority problem
10:01   popey   moving on...
10:01   willvdl the doc team is usually in line in general
10:02   popey   heh
10:02   popey   matt east said they have the same issues in the doc team :)
10:02   willvdl following the release notes should suffice
10:02   popey   ok, next item - I plan to rattle through these.. keep up at the back :)
10:02   popey   * Communication
10:02   popey     * Should we have a separate mailing list, focus discussion of screencasts
10:02   popey   "yes"
10:03   popey     * Separate IRC channel
10:03   popey   "yes"
10:03   willvdl "no" better to not dilute the community IMHO
10:03   popey   currently we are using ubuntu-doc and #ubuntu-doc
10:03   linuxphotogeek  Found them = http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd3 and http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd2
10:03   popey   well, I would say we keep in contact with the -doc team
10:03   popey   thanks linuxphotogeek
10:04   willvdl it's easier if you use the same channel. if the bandwidth gets big enough to warrant it then create a new channel/list
10:04   popey   fair point
10:04   willvdl we face a similar issue in edubuntu
10:05   davmor2 I think it would be good to have separate irc but combined mail that way we can keep our eye on what is going on in general
10:05   popey   ok, lets stay where we are, but will look at this in the future at an unspecified date?
10:05   willvdl +
10:06   willvdl the irc channel does not have that much noise. better to leverage from the doc-team
10:06   popey   indeed
10:06   Shish   I'd say stay until screencasting talk starts using more bandwidth than other doc talk
10:06   popey   we can learn good stuff from them
10:06   popey   yes, Shish agreed
10:06   willvdl and pull in new contributers
10:06   popey   ah, also good point
10:06   linuxphotogeek  some of them are us!
10:06   popey   ok, last point before any other business..
10:06   popey   * Accessibility
10:06   popey     * Should we add subtitles?
10:07   tonytiger       Tricky.
10:07   Coli1   how easy is that?
10:07   popey   or, transcripts (which we already suggested for translation purposes)
10:07   willvdl ooh. affects localisation again
10:07   popey   I dont know
10:07   popey   but I envisage this will be somewhat time consuming
10:07   willvdl transcripts makes more sense I guess
10:07   tonytiger       Tricky, tricky, tricky.
10:07   frederific      hmm, could we combine the 2?
10:07   willvdl two birds, one stone
10:07   frederific      Have a number pop-up in the bottom right every so often, which matches up to a number on a transcript?
10:07   tonytiger       You're almost certainly looking at more post-processing with Kino or Cinelerra for on-screen subtitles.
=== popey doesnt know
10:07   Shish   if using ogg, we could have many subtitles in one file, and let the user choose which (if any) to view
10:08   frederific      (my way would also be easier to translate I think)
10:08   tonytiger       Shish: Oh, true.
10:08   tonytiger       Shish: How do you generate them though?
10:08   popey   Shish: that would mean re-making the ogg every time a new set of subtitles are made?
10:08   linuxphotogeek  Farm this out - opportunity to pull in volunteers that can't screencast
10:08   Shish   remuxing yes, but not reencoding
10:08   popey   which also means re-uploading
10:09   Shish   yeah :-/
10:09   tonytiger       That's tough with archive.org
10:09   frederific      but its not just off is it? People also watch the google video, mpeg, etc; what about them?
10:09   popey   shall we look at transcripts first, subtitles possibly later?
10:09   popey   tonytiger: we dont use archive.org any more
10:09   popey   all hosted by us on doc.ubuntu.com
10:09   Coli1   everything can't be done straight away
10:09   frederific      *ogg btw
10:09   popey   it would be very time consuming
10:09   popey   text is easier for us to update
10:10   popey   on the site that is
10:10   Shish   we *could* store video, audio, and subtitle streams seperately, then mux them on the fly when the user downloads, if anyone feels up to programming that :P
10:10   popey   hahaha
=== popey pegs that as "nice to have"
10:10   popey   transcript then?
10:10   popey   for now?
10:11   Shish   yeah
10:11   frederific      yeah, transcripts are good
10:11   popey   ok, finally
10:11   popey   any other business?
10:11   benanzo are we looking a word-for-word transcripts or notes
10:12   linuxphotogeek  Has any one done a screencasting screencast?
10:12   Coli1   i think it should be word for word so help with the translating.
10:12   frederific      linuxphotogeek: I think Ive seen one
10:12   tonytiger       It's on the list, IIRC :)
10:12   Shish   back to technical bits, I've been trying out xvidcap during this conversation -- a 640x480 capture is maxing out my 2GHz box, and only capturing 75% of frames at that...
10:12   benanzo are you running qemy
10:12   benanzo qemu
10:12   tonytiger       linuxphotogeek: Not quite a screencast on screencasting, but popey did a talk on it: http://hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TechTalks/5thAugust2006
10:13   Shish   nope, just a regular desktop
10:13   Coli1   linuxphotogeek i did a screencasting screencast but it used a 'bad' OS :-)
10:13   benanzo yikes
10:13   Shish   I suspect I could fiddle with settings to get more out of it (ie, not encode to mpeg4 in realtime)
10:14   tonytiger       That's advisable.
10:16   popey   I encode to mpeg2 / avi
10:16   popey   no audio
10:16   popey   however this is a dual-core 2.2GHz machine
10:16   davmor2 have you discussed what content to include?
10:16   popey   I have planned on doing a screencasting screencast
10:17   jwsurrey        Hi guys, i've joined an hour late, will this be archived somewhere i can find later?  Popey, can you remind me that web address good for irc, i need to return to wifey and lurk using [cough]  a non-ubuntu mechanism (they exist!). Ta!  PS: solns for a 500MHz box???
10:17   popey   davmor2: no because thats on the wiki already, what did you want to say/ask/suggest?
10:17   popey   hi jwsurrey yes, I will archive and summarise too
10:18   willvdl https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/  ?
10:18   benanzo i miraculously am able to play back 1280x800 video using mplayer and -vo x11 instead of xv.  weird.
10:19   popey   ok, so anything that needs sorting in the meeting that we can't talk about in -doc?
10:19   benanzo anyway, I'm on a 2.2ghz core duo and got 6 frames/sec
10:19   Shish   Yeah, I've found xv is faster for small video, but really choppy for anything more than 640x480 :|
10:19   popey   I'd like to wrap this up soon
10:19   popey   benanzo: I get ~20fps on this
10:19   tonytiger       Sounds like some time to talk about technical issues might be appreciated.
10:19   frederific      we've got another 40mins booked, may as well us it
10:19   popey   yes tonytiger
10:19   davmor2 when the next meeting going to be?
10:19   popey   hehe okay
10:19   benanzo hmmm
10:20   popey   that s next on the agenda davmor2 :)
10:20   popey   is 2 weeks too soon? should we meet in 4 weeks?
10:20   popey   I am open to suggestion
10:20   tonytiger       What will have changed in 2 weeks?
10:21   popey   ok, I need some actions then :)
10:21   davmor2 no 2 weeks sort out the screen size issue it's a biggy to get sort asap
10:21   willvdl could have tested different resolutions...
10:21   popey   yes
10:21   popey   and compression rates
10:21   Shish   do we have a screencast to-do list anywhere?
10:21   davmor2 yes the wiki
10:21   popey   Shish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests
10:21   Shish   thanks
10:23   popey   I dont understand why xvidcap is so fast for me, and slow for others
10:23   popey   I dont know what I am doing differently
10:23   tonytiger       Disk speed?
10:23   benanzo what are your prefs at
10:23   davmor2 what's your setup
10:23   davmor2 memory
10:23   popey   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts see that page
10:23   davmor2 processor speed
10:23   popey   look for "Set the preferences in xvidcap"
10:24   popey   2GB ram, core2duo 2.66GHz
10:24   Coli1   how did you install ubuntu?  do you do something funny?  write your own kernel in binary? :-)
10:24   popey   heh
10:24   davmor2 that could do it
10:24   popey   it's an up to date feisty install which was previously edgy - upgraded
10:24   davmor2 2 gig of memory
10:24   popey   note I record to mpeg2 video
10:25   popey   well, actually there is less available because I give 512MB to the virtual machine
10:27   davmor2 yes but if you 256 or 512 and are giving half to the virtual machine then that explains a lot
10:27   popey   guys, being really selfish here, but I would like to wrap up the meeting because I appear to have caught a bug from my daughter, not to put to finer point on it, I am not well :(
10:28   willvdl sweet
10:28   davmor2 no excuse :-P
10:28   benanzo ..
10:28   davmor2 tatz
10:28   popey   ok, well thank you all for coming \o/
10:28   davmor2 sed /z/a
10:28   tonytiger       Good meeting popey
10:28   benanzo good meeting
10:28   tonytiger       Well run.
10:28   davmor2 not bad
10:28   Coli1   yes, thanks for all your hard work so far
10:28   popey   who is going to put the logs up? me?
10:29   popey   oh, they're already there :)_
10:29   popey   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Screencast2007-02-12
10:29   davmor2 vote pope \o/
10:29   popey   ok, sorry to duck out, i *need* to go lie down
10:30   willvdl ciao
10:30   popey   thanks again, will write up everything on the wiki and mail -doc
10:30   popey   bye