Kubuntu_2006-02-16
08:58 raphink hello
08:58 seth hiya raphink
08:59 raphink hi seth :)
08:59 raphink KM#1-1m
08:59 jpatrick hello everyone
08:59 jjesse hiya jpatrick
08:59 raphink hi jpatrick, jjesse
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08:59 atie hi
09:00 raphink hi atie
09:00 jpatrick hello atie, raphink, jjesse, *
09:00 raphink Riddell said he might be a bit late, right jpatrick ?
09:00 jpatrick yes
09:00 luka74 hello all
09:00 jjesse he was doing a quick install
09:00 raphink hi luka74
09:00 jpatrick has to do a quick install
09:00 Riddell good evening all
09:00 atie raphink, jpatrick , hi
09:00 raphink jjesse: ok
09:00 raphink hi Riddell
09:00 jjesse ooo 3 inches of ice on the ground, its going to be fun going home from
work today
09:00 Riddell install still going on so I'm stuck in my cupboard with the other
computer
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09:01 raphink Tonio can't come to the meeting unfortunately... thanks to the French
Telecom Company, that seems to have disconnected his line today
09:01 Riddell so, Kubuntu Meeting..
09:01 jjesse can't connect to cdimage is there a different place to download a
kubuntu flight 3 cd?
09:01 Riddell agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
=== robotgeek [n=robotgee@ppp-70-252-99-60.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined
#ubuntu-meeting
and I saved a copy to
09:01 Riddell http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/KubuntuMeetings.html since wiki seems
not to be online
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09:02 Riddell jjesse: flight 3 is old new, flight 4 is in testing now
09:02 Riddell s/new/news/
09:02 raphink good idea Riddell
09:02 Hobbsee morning everyone!
=== jpatrick has a cached copy
09:02 jjesse so where can i get flight4 seeing i can't connect to cdimage :(
09:02 raphink re Hobbsee
09:02 raphink ok
09:02 Riddell jjesse: you can't :(
09:02 raphink anyone volunteering to write the minutes?
09:02 jpatrick me
09:03 Riddell thanks jpatrick
09:03 Riddell names?
09:03 jjesse bummer need to redownload everything as laptop had a hardware failure
:(
09:03 raphink thanks jpatrick
=== Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
09:03 jmont (sorry to ask, but the fridge.ubuntu seems to be down) today is
kubuntu meeting?
=== raphink is Raphal Pinson
=== seth is Seth Kinast
09:03 jjesse jjesse -- Jonathan Jesse
09:03 jpatrick If I'm around for the meeting
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=== apokryphos is Francis Giannaros
09:03 raphink jmont: yes, right now
=== apachelogger is Harald Sitter
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#ubuntu-meeting
09:03 Riddell jmont: yes
=== Hobbsee is Sarah Hobbs
=== jpatrick is Jonathan Patrick Davies
=== Snake__ is Ken Minardo
=== allee is Achim Bohnet
=== jmont is Jlio Santos Monteiro
=== toma is Tom Albers
09:03 sorush20 hi
09:04 Riddell wow, what a turn out :)
=== robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan
09:04 raphink so as I said, Tonio couldn't do it tonight, but he had a lot to report
and to ask at this meeting, so he asked me to do it for him
09:04 sorush20 tell me about it..
it was raphink who suggested we have a meeting and I guess one of the
09:04 Riddell outcomes of it should be whether meetings are useful and if we should
have more in the future
09:04 raphink so I'll be doing my best to represent him ;)
=== incinerator is C. Dominik Bodi (just lurking)
09:04 jjesse personal thought was about time
09:04 seth jjesse +1
09:04 sorush20 Riddell: if you want a better turnout we shoudl advertise this channel
on the #ubuntu channel topic..
09:04 raphink we have a lot of things on the agenda, so I suggest we begin now
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Feb 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Feb 14:00 UTC:
Documentation Team | 22 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
09:05 raphink first point is TOnio's
09:05 raphink but I'll begin with some news for the ones who are not up-to-date with
kubuntu-devel news :)
09:05 jjesse ooo bring me up to date :)
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09:05 raphink as late news, we are happy to have two new KDE MOTUs in our midst :)
09:06 raphink jpatrick and Tonio got accepted as MOTUs last tuesday
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09:06 raphink :)
09:06 Snake__ Congrads guys
=== apachelogger applauds
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09:06 raphink having more MOTUs focused on KDE is something we really needed, so
we're happy to have them :)
09:06 Psi-Jack Did I miss anything? :)
09:06 jpatrick \o/
09:06 Riddell is there anyone else we should get membership/MOTU for?
09:06 raphink Psi-Jack: we just began
09:06 luka74 #testlr
09:06 seth Riddell, I'll be getting around to MOTU soon enough :/
09:06 Psi-Jack Great. I'll be quiet and listen for now, then. ;)
09:07 raphink seth: good :) I'm looking forward to it
09:07 Riddell seth: great
09:07 seth Riddell, too many things on my plate right now though, and I don't
know if I've contributed sufficiently at this point
09:07 raphink ok :)
09:07 Riddell I wonder if Hobbsee would get past the membership dudes yet
09:07 jpatrick that TechBoard stuff is long..........
=== Snake__ votes in Hobbsee
09:07 Hobbsee Riddell: i have no idea
09:07 Snake__ :)
09:07 raphink jpatrick: hehe
09:07 raphink :)
09:07 allee Riddell: I assume I can dare to apply for membership
09:07 seth Riddell, opinion on what more I should get done before running the TB
gauntlet?
is it just me or does the
09:08 sorush20 http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/2006/02/16/month/event site keep
crashing I can't see the adgenda help
09:08 Riddell allee: yes, please do
09:08 Riddell sorush20: yes, data centre is half out
09:08 jpatrick seth: lots of supporters
=== allee adds to TODO
09:08 seth (I'm now maintaining 6 packages in Kubuntu and have about 2 1/2 dozen
uploads)
09:08 Psi-Jack kubuntu.org is /still/ down? :/
09:08 raphink Riddell: can you put the url of the agenda in the /topic for the
duration of the meeting please?
09:08 Riddell people going for membership/maintainership please keep your wiki pages
up to date
09:08 Riddell and show them to me before the techboard/community board meeting
09:09 sorush20 Riddell: well that is not very good at all , did you guys want me to
host for you for a few hours?
09:09 sorush20 lol
09:09 Riddell keep a list of packages you've contributed to, Tonio's page is
excellent
09:09 raphink sorush20: hehe
09:09 raphink ok
09:09 raphink :)
=== Hobbsee will check out tonio's page for some inspiration when she's more awake
09:09 sorush20 so with out an adgenda there really is nothing to talk about..
09:09 Riddell ** Agenda at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/KubuntuMeetings.html
09:09 raphink we have a full agenda sorush20
09:09 Snake__ Sure there is, just call up what we can remeber
09:09 jpatrick well it's not long before FeatureFreeze....
09:10 raphink let's follow up with Tonio's Kubuntu default settings, shall we?
09:10 Snake__ Ahh Riddell 's on it :)
09:10 raphink we have lots of things to discuss tonight
09:10 Riddell raphink: go ahead
09:10 sorush20 is there anyway that ubuntu users can pay for the proprietory software
though ubuntu canonical ?
09:10 sorush20 (18:51:42) ompaul: sorush20, no, but it is an interesting idea
09:10 sorush20 (18:51:53) ompaul: what do you think it would cost
09:10 sorush20 (18:52:24) ompaul: mp3 is owned by a consortia of *nice people*
09:10 sorush20 (18:52:34) ompaul: that is only one of the codecs
09:10 sorush20 (18:52:37) Ivaldi left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)).
09:10 raphink ok
09:10 sorush20 (18:52:50) ompaul: wmv - licence that from the doze people --- hmmm
09:10 sorush20 (18:52:56) ompaul: and so on
09:10 raphink sorush20: please don't do that
09:10 seth zoy
09:10 jpatrick sorush20: ok, please don't do that
09:10 raphink sorush20: we've got an agenda, please add your points after we've gone
through it
09:10 raphink now
09:11 raphink Tonio has been working quite hard on Kubuntu default settings lately
09:11 raphink trying to work on every detail to make it usable out-of-the-box very
easily
09:11 raphink he's given me a list of proposals and questions to ask tonight
09:11 raphink since he can't make it for technical reasons
09:11 raphink the first point is about double-click
09:11 raphink all recent operating systems use double-click to open files and
folders
09:12 apachelogger KDE doesn't
09:12 raphink this can be set in KDE very easily but default is still simple one
09:12 Snake__ Oh man...keep the single click
09:12 apachelogger yeah
09:12 Riddell too big a change from KDE defaults
09:12 raphink how many of you use simple click?
09:12 Riddell we'd have the whole of KDE after us if we changed that
09:12 apachelogger I do
09:12 Psi-Jack I use double-click myself.
=== Hobbsee uses double click
09:12 seth <-- double
09:12 Snake__ I use single click.
09:12 incinerator keep the single klick or use a setup wizard to ask the user upon first
startup....
09:12 Snake__ incinerator: Thats a idea.
09:12 jjesse can't we ask the user
09:12 Riddell no startup wizards!
=== Hobbsee thinks it would be worhtwhile to actually run the setup wizard by default on
first boot
09:12 incinerator quite annoying krusader using double click and everything else single
click
09:13 Hobbsee with a skip button!
09:13 sorush20 I think we have to make the user aware of the situation the first time
he or she logs into kubuntu, how about with an animations.. ?
09:13 Psi-Jack KDE itself, already has a Startup wizard.
09:13 incinerator kde comes with a startup wizard....
09:13 raphink incinerator: there is a setup wizzard existing, but it's quite hard to
tune in such a short time.
09:13 incinerator i know
09:13 seth if you guys haven't noticed, we patch *out* all startup wizards
09:13 seth we don't want to ADD startup wizards
09:13 seth :P
09:13 incinerator then please keep the single click
09:13 jpatrick SimplifyKDE kills the wizards and KTip things
09:13 Psi-Jack seth: Yes. I know. Quite annoying if I say so myself.
09:13 Snake__ seth: start-up wizards are never that bad, when you can skip them.
09:13 Riddell startup wizards (and tip of the day etc) go against simplicity
09:13 incinerator it's easy to notice the changed behaviour....
09:13 seth I would argue that good defaults >>> startup wizard
09:14 incinerator Riddell: fair enough, I agree to that
09:14 Riddell the whole point of kubuntu-default-dsettings is we pick decent
settings and go with them
09:14 raphink yes
09:14 raphink I agree with you Riddell
09:14 raphink I don't want a wizard either
09:14 Psi-Jack Riddell: THAT I can agree with too, however.
09:14 sorush20 how about having a button on konqueror or desktop toolbar to change
from single click to double and back/??
09:14 jpatrick something sane
09:14 Riddell the kde first run wizard has been removed upstream anyway, mostly
based on kubuntu as justification
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09:14 incinerator keep the single click then, it's not that the user won't notice
anyways....
09:14 raphink the point though is that (K)Ubuntu is a distribution aimed to users
coming mostly from mac/windows
09:14 wincide hi all
09:14 Snake__ Why go to double click though? Just out of curiosity?
09:14 raphink and used to double click by default
09:14 incinerator mac does use double click?
09:14 incinerator bah
09:15 jpatrick Snake__: takes twice as long
09:15 raphink yes
09:15 incinerator raphink: doesn't make it the right thing to do
09:15 apachelogger raphink: so loose a main thing of KDE identity for that?
09:15 raphink all modern interfaces use double click by default except kde
09:15 incinerator single click is way more intuitive and less a hassle for disabled
people....
09:15 Riddell double click is confusing to people new to computers, I've seen that
lots
09:15 Psi-Jack Snake__: So you don't have to hold CTRL single-click to highlight a
file.
09:15 apokryphos single-click is the way to go I think -- most usability arguments tend
to side on that way
09:15 Riddell (it also makes selection a lot harder of course)
09:15 sorush20 lets say you want to be able to find out the properties of a file when
you single click on it it opens it rather than just highlight it..
it doesnt seem like we get *that* many questions in #kubuntu on how to
09:15 Hobbsee change it - so people are finding that they can either live with it,
or figure out how to change it themselves.
09:16 jpatrick yes
09:16 seth Hobbsee +1, I think it's really a moot point
09:16 Snake__ I've been around #kubuntu a while, and I havn't seen to much
complaining either
09:16 wincide greetings for the plasma kicker.. it's very nice , i've installed that
with baghira :D
09:16 raphink good point Hobbsee
09:16 Riddell yep
09:16 Hobbsee :D yay!
09:16 raphink ok
09:16 raphink shall we make a quick vote?
09:16 Psi-Jack Sure. :)\
09:16 sorush20 raphink: yes how you going to make that/
09:16 Snake__ +1 to Single Click
09:17 raphink I'm hearing points of view from different sides so just to be sure I'm
hearing more simple-click ones
09:17 jpatrick I think it's settled
09:17 apachelogger yo
09:17 jjesse +1 single click
09:17 Hobbsee +1 single click
09:17 Riddell no votes, but we can take a poll
09:17 apachelogger +1 single click
09:17 robotgeek +1 single click
09:17 raphink +1 double click
09:17 incinerator +1 single click
=== allee single ++
09:17 jpatrick Riddell: where?
=== apokryphos chuckles
09:17 Riddell +1 single click
09:17 raphink ok
09:17 Riddell jpatrick: here :)
09:17 jpatrick +1 single click
09:17 seth +1 single click (just because it's the default, no rocking the boat)
09:17 wincide double click ++
09:17 Snake__ Seems single click wins :)
09:17 Psi-Jack I think it's unanymous.
09:17 raphink there that's clear enough :)
09:17 Psi-Jack sp?
09:17 jpatrick single wins!
09:17 incinerator 2 nay, rest ayes
09:17 Hobbsee good, next point
09:17 raphink let's move to next point then
09:17 raphink which is the fonts
09:18 sorush20 Psi-Jack: is there anyother way we could vote on a a website?
09:18 raphink many people complain the default fonts are too big
09:18 incinerator voting by irc bot?
09:18 jpatrick ...or too small
09:18 Riddell people also complain they are too small :)
09:18 sorush20 also shouldn't the vote be put though to all the kubuntu users?
09:18 raphink jpatrick:
09:18 seth that's one of the first things I change when I get a fresh Kubuntu
09:18 raphink jpatrick: yes
09:18 Psi-Jack sorush20: Heh, sure. If you got a site or something with even a sinple
voting boot. :p
09:18 Snake__ You can't blame that though, wouldn't that be their resolutions fault?
09:18 wincide i have a laptop with 1280x800 and i've set the fons to 10
09:18 Riddell the minimum font size in konqueror definatly needs changed from
current dapper (7)
09:18 raphink tonio proposes to set the dpi to 100 and use either 8 or 9
09:18 robotgeek is there any way to detect screen size, it's too big on my 12 inch
ibook, perfect on monitor
09:18 seth I'm on 1680 x 1050, 100dpi and I use 8pt (10pt for window titles)
09:19 Psi-Jack A font size of 12 is definately gargantuant.
09:19 raphink are there people using 100 dpi and what do you think of such a size ?
09:19 Hobbsee i was using 9 with 100 dpi and that worked preety well - 1024x768
09:19 jpatrick I like mine at 9
09:19 Snake__ robotgeek: agreed....its to big on 800x600, but to small on higher
ones
09:19 incinerator screen size detection can be tricky, and preferences differ
09:19 Riddell we will never get font sizer exactly correct since it depends on
people's eyesight
09:19 incinerator i'd second making the fonts a wee bit bigger, particularly on laptops
09:19 Snake__ Riddell: and their resolution...
09:19 luka74 my autodetected DPI is 145 - and fonts are HUGE
09:19 Psi-Jack At 1280x1024, I use a font size of 8, average. 7 for things like the
taskbar.
09:19 Riddell Snake__: exactly
09:19 sealne and how far away they like their monitors
09:19 incinerator if it's to big, you'll make it smaller, if it's to small you can't
read a thing, again, disabled....
09:20 luka74 I manually set DPI to 120 (or 100) to make it look nice
09:20 incinerator ^vision impaired people
09:20 raphink ok
09:20 Riddell gnome sets the Xft font size to 96
09:20 sorush20 I think the font size is good enough really its easy enought to change
09:20 raphink tonio proposes to set the dpi forced to 100 in kdmrc
09:20 Riddell if we can find a way to do the same we could try that out
09:20 raphink and set the fonts to 8 or 9
=== Hobbsee thinks that this again, like the single/double click, can be easily changed
in system settings to get it exactly right, and there are hardly any questions in
#kubuntu over it - but it would be nice to get it vaguely right for the first boot
09:20 Riddell dpi rather, not font size
09:20 seth Hobbsee, I've seen a lot more complaints about fonts than about
clicking
09:21 Riddell Hobbsee: I mostly get complains about KDE and gnome being different
(even if you set the point sizes the same)
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09:21 Hobbsee seth: ah, they must not be while i'm on then
09:21 raphink seth: indeed, people complain a lot about fonts
09:21 raphink and it seems the only good option is to force dpi=100
09:21 jpatrick welcome amu
09:21 amu moin
09:21 allee DPI are a well defined. We should get it right and let people use
kcontrol center to change it
09:21 Hobbsee very true - same with xfce
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09:21 luka74 Hobbsee: system settings is not good enough - as many aps have own
font setting
09:21 allee it is pt size of fonts not dpi ;)
09:21 Psi-Jack Hmmm.
09:21 sorush20 are you guys voting?
09:21 sorush20 +1 keep the font size
raphink, dpi right now is very hard to change (have to edit kdmrc with
09:21 seth an arcane option), so I am in favor of bumping to 100 dpi by default,
and then letting font sizes do the rest
09:21 Riddell I don't want the X server DPI set, that's messing with too much stuff,
we should try setting the Xft DPI so we match gnome
09:21 luka74 lots of manual config is required and not "it-looks-good-by-default"
(tm) Kubuntu
09:21 incinerator Riddell +1
09:22 raphink ok
09:22 raphink let's vote
09:22 raphink who is for changing the dpi to 100 by default in kdmrc ?
09:22 seth hang on
09:22 Riddell raphink: wait
09:22 allee seth: don't touch kdmrc use kontrolcenter
09:22 raphink Riddell: ok
09:22 Riddell firstly, it's 96 not 100 that gnome uses
09:22 seth what is the difference between setting the Xft DPI and the X server
DPI
09:22 Riddell so we should stick to that
09:22 atie please don't forget gnome uses 96dpi, many people want to match size
between kde and gnome.
09:22 allee -dpi --
09:22 Psi-Jack Riddell: Why stick to that?
09:23 Riddell Psi-Jack: because part of the problem is that gnome and kde font sizes
are different
09:23 Riddell including firefox
09:23 Psi-Jack Hmmm.
09:23 Psi-Jack That actually is a very good point. VERY good.
09:23 Hobbsee if we could get them to be the same, that's probably worth doing
09:23 Riddell so people set the point sizes the same but they end up with different
fonts
09:23 Snake__ Why are we matching ourselves to gnome? Let's lead, not follow....find
what looks good and use it.
09:23 allee atie: that KDE gets it right compared to windows and gnome is a big
plus for KDE
09:23 raphink most people don't want to consider that they have some apps from the
gnome world and some from the kde one
=== allee nods to Snake__
09:23 Snake__ I havn't used gnome, so I dont know how the fonts look, but if they
look right, then use it.
09:23 Riddell and when they log into the other desktop environment the sizes are
wrong again
09:24 allee raphink: then set gnome dpi to the right value when in a KDE session
09:24 Riddell allee: KDE may get it right but the monitors may not :)
09:24 raphink I'm in favor of following what GNOME has
09:24 atie allee, kde is in advance to follow X setting, but in case need to
match with gnome
09:24 Riddell so we need to find out how to set hte Xft DPI size and try that
09:24 Riddell which is following what gnome has
=== robotgeek thinks wrong font sizes in Gnome is not kubuntu's problem?
09:24 allee Riddell: xorg driver fault.
09:24 Psi-Jack Yep. Even Firefox offers 72dpi and 92dpi
09:24 wincide i have to leave
09:24 Psi-Jack 96 even
09:24 wincide see you :D
09:24 raphink bye wincide
09:25 raphink ok
09:25 raphink let's try to see what options we have
09:25 allee Riddell: DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm in Monitor section # if
autodetection of driver fails
09:25 Riddell robotgeek: everyone gets it wrong, it's a case of getting it
consistent so once it's set it works everywhere
09:25 raphink a) keep it as it is
09:25 Tm_T sorry I'm late (prolly doesn't matter much)
09:25 raphink b) set the dpi to fit with gnome's settings
09:25 sorush20 I think font size isn't very important
09:25 Psi-Jack Shoot, X standards, used 72dpi and 100dpi, but 100dpi is actually
non-standard /everywhere/ else.
09:25 Snake__ Riddell: +1
09:25 raphink c) set our own dpi and fonts
09:25 robotgeek Riddell: okay
09:25 Riddell Psi-Jack: interesting
09:25 Psi-Jack Riddell: Yes. exactly. ;)
09:26 allee Psi-Jack: that are bitmap fonts relicts
09:26 sorush20 howabout making an iRC client that allows fast voting system ?
09:26 Snake__ sorush20: .....
09:26 Riddell any volunteers for investigating how to change the xft DPI?
09:26 seth sorush20, please *stop*
09:26 raphink sorush20: yeah, do that for next meeting
09:26 Riddell I volunteer tonio to do it :)
09:26 apachelogger hehe
09:26 atie Psi-Jack, 75 dpi and 100 dpi
09:26 Snake__ Heh
09:26 Hobbsee hehe
09:26 raphink Tonio is already volunteer for it
09:27 sorush20 I don't know any programing but will learn before I idie..
09:27 Riddell raphink: yeah, but this goes beyond setting stuff and involves working
out how to talk to xft
09:27 Riddell which may be trivial, or may not, I've no idea
09:27 incinerator wiki's up again byraway
09:27 raphink yes Riddell
09:27 robotgeek i have done something similiar before, so i'm game
09:27 Snake__ So shall we vote?
09:27 atie Riddell, that's in .Xdefaults
09:27 Riddell robotgeek: great :) it means looking through gnome-settings-daemon to
see how it does it
09:27 Snake__ Or did we and I missed it? :)
09:27 sorush20 Snake__: yes
09:27 raphink Snake__: yes let's vote
09:27 raphink so here are the choices I see
09:27 incinerator +1 Ridell's xft
09:28 raphink a) keep the current settings
09:28 Snake__ B I guess.
09:28 Psi-Jack What are the deciding factors?
09:28 allee I'll offer to write a Wiki about dpi and fonts size.
09:28 Riddell +1 b) where b means working out how to set xft's DPI
09:28 raphink b) modify the dpi to fit with gnome's settings
09:28 raphink c) setting our own dpi
09:28 Snake__ +1 b) modify the dpi to fit with gnome's settings
09:28 raphink any other option ?
09:28 seth +1 xft, sounds the most reasonable
09:28 incinerator +1 b)
09:28 sorush20 I think its trivial
09:28 apachelogger +1 b)
09:28 Psi-Jack http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/KubuntuMeetings.html
09:28 raphink +1 b too
09:28 Psi-Jack Ack.
09:28 Tm_T +1 b
09:29 Psi-Jack +1 b here. Because KDE uses fontconfig explicitely.
09:29 amu c. ... who cares about others env :)
09:29 Psi-Jack It's only natural to use fontconfig FULLY.
09:29 Hobbsee +1 b
09:29 raphink ok
09:29 luka74 +1 b
09:29 allee I'm confused: 2 b)
09:29 jpatrick +1 c
09:29 allee [21:28] <Riddell> +1 b) where b means working out how to set xft's
DPI
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
09:29 Snake__ amu: Thats what I said, but there is a good point when they say going
from Gnome to KDE and back
09:29 Riddell sorush20 and robotgeek talk to tonio about getting that done
09:29 raphink so the majority is b = using GNOME's default = 96dpi, using xft
09:29 allee 21:28] <Snake__> +1 b) modify the dpi to fit with gnome's settings
09:29 incinerator ack
09:29 raphink all right
09:30 raphink I'm sorry I have so many of Tonio's points to bring here
09:30 raphink and we still have a lot to go on the agenda
09:30 amu Snake__: doesnt matter, we are an kubuntu desktop, eveyone should use
KDE allps
09:30 incinerator go ahead then
=== mvo [n=egon@pD951DF11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:30 amu allps/apps
09:30 incinerator amu: bah
09:30 raphink but this is a work that has to be done before the 23rd
09:30 raphink next point is with tabs
09:30 Snake__ amu: thats limiting ourselves. Thats not something I feel like doing
09:30 incinerator if you do a qt version of firefox, ok
09:30 raphink tabs in konversation first, that are in the bottom by default
09:30 raphink although in all other apps, they are on the top
09:30 incinerator as in ksirc
09:30 Snake__ raphink: is this really a problem?
09:30 Snake__ .....
09:30 amu Snake__: is there something what kde not have, gnome have?
09:30 incinerator ksirc has them on the bottom
09:31 incinerator no
09:31 Psi-Jack Tabs?
09:31 raphink Snake__: I don't think so, but Tonio does
=== Snake__ sighs
09:31 raphink so to make it quick
09:31 Tm_T I like to have tabs in bottom when imputline is on the bottom too
09:31 Riddell kubuntu-default-settings changes the konsole default from bottom to
top (to match konqueror)
09:31 raphink a) keep it to the bottom
09:31 seth Tm_T ++++++
09:31 raphink b) change it to the top
09:31 Hobbsee i agree with Tm_T
09:31 apachelogger +1 a)
09:31 Snake__ +1 A
09:31 jpatrick +1 a
09:31 seth input box + tabs = nice easy area to do all the work in
09:31 Hobbsee +25 A!
09:31 incinerator unified key shortcuts to navigate the tabes would be much more
important....
09:31 Tm_T +1 a
09:31 seth +1 a
09:31 Riddell rationale for bottom is as Tm_T says
09:31 robotgeek +1 a
09:31 raphink a
09:31 incinerator c) unchanged
09:31 amu b
09:31 raphink ok
09:32 Psi-Jack +1 a definately.
09:32 allee + b keep at top
09:32 raphink a in majority :)
09:32 seth while we're on tabs
09:32 raphink without a doubt
09:32 Psi-Jack I move Konsole's tab to the bottom everytime, myself. :)
09:32 Tm_T Hobbsee: you cheater
09:32 seth let's talk about Kopete's tabs real fast
09:32 Hobbsee hehe
09:32 seth Kopete should mimic Konversation's tab shortcuts
09:32 raphink yes seth that was my next point
09:32 seth we need sane defaults for those
09:32 seth ah, okay :)
09:32 Riddell kopete has tabs?
09:32 Snake__ Ahh yes
=== seth defers to you
09:32 raphink kopete should have tabs by default
09:32 Tm_T Riddell: yes!
09:32 Psi-Jack Browser tabs, and application tabs I consider two different things.
09:32 jpatrick Riddell: yes
09:32 robotgeek raphink: +1
09:32 Hobbsee +1 Riddell
09:32 Psi-Jack Riddell: yes. :)
09:32 jpatrick multiple chats
09:32 raphink this is necessary
09:32 raphink we need that
09:32 robotgeek it's a big pain
09:32 Tm_T +1 tabs
09:32 raphink people begin to use gaim to get tabs
09:33 raphink because they don't know they get tabs in kopete
09:33 raphink tonio wants to put tabs by default in kopete
09:33 Snake__ I use my tabs, its should be default
09:33 seth ALT + {Left, Right} should be used to switch b/t tabs in Kopete, just
like Konversation
09:33 raphink putting the "all conversations in one window" option on by default
09:33 jpatrick read the handbook!
09:33 robotgeek it's 3 mouslicks away, and i did not find anything to set tabs on
(rightaway)
09:33 raphink a) keep it in different windows
09:33 seth I actually have a bug open for this on bugs.kde.org
09:33 atie Xft.dpi:96 is answer.
09:33 raphink b) use tabs by default in kopete
09:33 atie I'd like to add one more point font size for user and root shoud be
same.
09:33 Snake__ raphink: I would put the "All Conversations from same account" as
default
09:33 raphink :)
09:33 atie s/shoud/should
09:34 raphink ok then
09:34 raphink here are the choices
09:34 Riddell atie: they are by default
09:34 Tm_T Snake__: yes, that's best
09:34 robotgeek +1 b, please
09:34 raphink a) keep conversations in different windows
09:34 raphink b) gather all the conversations in one window with tabs
09:34 raphink c) gather all conversatiosn from one account in one window with tabs
09:34 sorush20 yes tabs by default is a good idea
09:34 raphink let's vote
09:34 jpatrick +1 b
09:34 Snake__ +1 C
09:34 seth +1 B
09:34 atie Riddell, I am sorry, I'm watching wiki
09:34 Tm_T +1 c
09:34 seth C is confusing for new users
09:34 Hobbsee +1 b
09:34 luka74 +1 b
09:34 robotgeek +1 b
09:34 raphink +b
09:34 incinerator +1 b
09:34 Tm_T (to keep irc separate)
09:34 seth they don't want to know about their different "accounts"
09:35 Riddell +1 b (although I haven't tried it so may change my mind)
09:35 Psi-Jack +1 b
09:35 Hobbsee cant see why you'd bother with c - all or nothing - that's why they
dont have a separate client for each service
09:35 allee b) ++
09:35 sorush20 +1 b
09:35 raphink any more votes?
09:35 sorush20 does my vote count?
09:35 raphink ok
09:35 Riddell sorush20: sure
09:35 raphink b in majority :)
09:35 Riddell but it's not a vote, just a poll
09:35 raphink that's a great enhancement imo :)
09:35 Tm_T b is fine
09:35 raphink sure sorush20
09:35 Riddell no binding decisions are made
09:35 raphink let's move on again
09:35 Riddell (I like to be able to back out :)
09:35 Psi-Jack I say B, because, people are looking for tabbed IM, already. It's good
to show them Kopete has it. :)
09:35 raphink let's move on to .... moodin!
09:35 jpatrick like tab browsering
09:35 Snake__ Moodin?
09:36 raphink tonio proposes to get moodin in main
09:36 jpatrick my package!!
09:36 Hobbsee what's moodlin?
09:36 Riddell poke pitti!
09:36 Psi-Jack moodin?
09:36 robotgeek moodin is great!
09:36 Snake__ Someone update me on moodin?
09:36 Snake__ lol
09:36 raphink and get the nice kubuntu splash by default
09:36 jpatrick ksplash-engine-moodin
09:36 raphink moodin is a ksplash engine
09:36 jpatrick and I find a nice theme for it
09:36 Riddell it's been in main inclusion review for over a month
09:36 Psi-Jack Yes. I'm using moodin for splash, with the hand-print. :)
09:36 Psi-Jack It's pretty spiffy.
09:36 raphink that allows to have very nice smooth ksplash
09:36 Snake__ Hmm
09:36 raphink Riddell: ok
09:36 Snake__ Why not add it?
09:36 Tm_T ok
09:36 Hobbsee any prettier ksplash than the one we has sounds good!
09:36 Hobbsee *has/have
09:36 raphink Riddell: does it have a chance to be in in a week?
09:36 robotgeek Hobbsee: a lot prettier
09:37 Riddell raphink: damn well better be
09:37 raphink so I guess this is unanimity for moodin
09:37 raphink Riddell: ok :)
09:37 incinerator i'd just wish i could turn off kde splash completetly
09:37 Psi-Jack Moodin is good, and all. HOWEVER:
09:37 raphink do you all know what the kubuntu moodin theme is ?
=== raphink goes to get a screenshot of it
=== robotgeek is using it
=== Tm_T loves screenshots
09:37 Psi-Jack If kubuntu is going to use moodin by default for splash, it should be
made to look good, and professional in quality, IMHO>
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:37 pitti hi
09:38 jpatrick I'm already at kde-look
09:38 Tm_T pitti: true
09:38 Riddell ooh pitti, we were just talking about you :)
09:38 jpatrick hello pitti just the man we want
09:38 Tm_T Psi-Jack: true
09:38 robotgeek Psi-Jack: yes, there are great themes for it
09:38 Psi-Jack robotgeek: I mean Kubuntu-specific. :)
09:38 pitti what's up?
09:38 raphink jpatrick: can you get it please?
09:38 Psi-Jack Something that shows Kubuntu off.
09:38 raphink oh I got it
09:38 jpatrick raphink: IU am
09:38 Snake__ Well why not add it. Throw it in, it won't hurt :)
09:38 raphink ok
09:38 incinerator link pls
09:38 Riddell pitti: people are getting frustrated at ksplash-moodin not being in
main yet is all
09:38 raphink this is the theme we want :
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29426
09:38 sorush20 yes moodin is infomative and personal cause it sys your user name..
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:38 raphink it used to have a bad license, now it's under GPL
09:38 jjesse sorry i had to leave
09:38 incinerator look nice
09:39 incinerator ^looks nice
09:39 Riddell pitti: and it could do with being done soon so we can get our artwork
sorted out
09:39 raphink please have a look at the link
09:39 jpatrick thanks to me
09:39 Hobbsee loading...loading...
09:39 raphink jpatrick: yep :)
=== jpatrick got author to change
09:39 Snake__ Looks good to me
09:39 Tm_T raphink: oh, lot better than breezy splash!
09:39 Snake__ Thats pretty
09:39 robotgeek raphink: yep, that;s the one i am using
09:39 Psi-Jack BRB. Need to blend me a Frappuccino real quick.
09:39 Hobbsee looks nice :)
=== apacheLAGger [n=Harald@N718P025.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:39 Snake__ Ill vote that in
09:39 sorush20 how about adding 3d effect to moodi? would be very cool
09:39 raphink everyone agree on trying to get this used by default?
09:39 pitti Riddell: oh, I wasn't awaere that you need it, let alone that it's
urgent
09:39 Tm_T apacheLAGger: snowy, son?
09:39 Snake__ raphink: I do
09:40 Riddell raphink: that theme is great but canonical are getting some
professional artwork done so we may have to combine the two
09:40 raphink sorush20: let's wait for dapper+1 for Xgl by default ;)
09:40 jpatrick matching KDM!! http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29331
09:40 pitti Riddell: I planned a couple of main inclusion reports tomorrow morning
anyway
09:40 Psi-Jack D'oh! I forgot to turn the coffee maker on. :/
09:40 Tm_T raphink: +999 to it =)
09:40 raphink Riddell: ok
09:40 Tm_T jpatrick: that in too!
09:40 raphink great :)
09:40 Psi-Jack raphink: I think it should be made available default, ONLY IF, Kubuntu
has a customized theme for it.
09:40 raphink let's move on again to an app that I think is not so famous yet ...
knemo
09:40 sorush20 raphink: have you voted yet .. I vote for it to be default ..
09:40 apacheLAGger Tm_T: always
09:40 Riddell pitti: it's not super urgent, but it does need to be done before
artwork freeze
09:40 Snake__ Knemo??
09:40 jpatrick pitti: report ::
http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKSplashMoodin
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
09:41 Tm_T jpatrick: uses old/new kubuntu logo?
09:41 raphink yep
09:41 ogra Riddell, which is still far out
09:41 Riddell ogra: yep
09:41 raphink sorry got too fast
09:41 raphink hehe
09:41 pitti Riddell, jpatrick: alright, will do tomorrow morning
09:41 Riddell excellent :)
09:42 jpatrick great :)
09:42 raphink sorush20: I've considered this was a global acceptation without anyone
complaining, no need for a poll
09:42 raphink ok
09:42 raphink let's move
09:42 raphink to knemo
09:42 Snake__ raphink: Perhaps look into that KDM as well
09:42 jpatrick those themes are professional
09:42 Riddell pitti: Keep is the other package we'd love to have in soonish, but I
don't want to take up all your main review time :)
09:42 raphink for the ones who do not know knemo
09:42 raphink this is a small applet for kicker
09:42 raphink that monitors your network interfaces
09:42 Psi-Jack Heh.. I don't use really ANY kicker applets.
09:43 raphink you give it the name of the interface, as listed in ifconfig, and it
puts a nice small icon in the bar
09:43 raphink to monitor the traffice, IP, etc.
09:43 Snake__ Arn't there enough karambas for this?
09:43 Tm_T raphink: aye, I installed it once, had _big_ problems when trying to
remove it
09:43 Tm_T raphink: prolly fixed though =)
09:43 apachelogger Snake__: quite different
09:43 raphink knemo looks quite a lot like the network monitory for windows
09:43 Hobbsee raphink: that'd be cool, and not everyone wants to run karamba
09:43 Snake__ Ohhhh
And as a matter, I would vote to keep kicker applets down to a
09:43 Psi-Jack minimum. We do not want that kicker being overflooded with potentially
useless applets.
09:43 raphink a blinking icon in the taskbar
=== robotgeek is still stuck with his wireless up down scripts, might be good for some
people
=== Hobbsee thinks there's a deficiency in wireless configuration tools that work, as
well - this needs fixing
09:44 raphink Hobbsee: exactly
09:44 luka74 I would not introduce knemo since knetworkmanager will come sooner
than later
09:44 incinerator Hobsee +1
09:44 Riddell related to this is that network manager won't get into dapper (gnome
or KDE)
09:44 Snake__ Hobbsee: +111
09:44 luka74 knemo is just reporting, while knetworkmanager alows some rela actions
09:44 apachelogger http://rosenberg.homelinux.net/wordpress/wp-content/knemo.png
09:44 Hobbsee can we get some packages for knetworkmanager please??? *shows puppy
dog eyes at Riddell* - just stick them on your server unofficially?
09:44 Riddell but I expect network manager to be in for dapper + 1
09:44 raphink luka74: right, so far
09:45 Riddell Hobbsee: not from me, it needs 3 different things packaged
09:45 Riddell problems with knemo are 1) yet another kicker applet
09:45 Riddell and 1) last time I tried it took a lot of manual setup
09:45 Snake__ Riddell: As far as I can see, you can't have enough of those :)
09:45 Riddell err, that was 2) :)
09:45 raphink hehe
09:45 Psi-Jack What is the poposition for knemo? To include it in kubuntu-desktop to
pull it in, or make it applied as a kicker applet default?
09:45 Hobbsee hehe - Riddell cant count
09:45 Tm_T Riddell: what's third 1) ?
09:46 Snake__ Psi-Jack: I think to add it
09:46 Riddell hay, I'm in my cupboard here, don't even have a desk to type on
09:46 raphink Psi-Jack: Tonio's proposition is to get it in main to include it by
default
09:46 luka74 I am using it currently (testing) and I do not see much value (just
using some kicker real estate)
09:46 allee knemo has custom menues, and they can be set by us
09:46 Psi-Jack Snake__: To which ? There's two things I just said, it could be added
to. :p
09:46 raphink Tonio provided a knemorc file to set it right by default
09:46 Tm_T Riddell: atleast you do have a cupboard ;)
09:46 raphink that works
09:46 Snake__ Psi-Jack: Ah hehe, to kubuntu-desktop...I dont want it on my kicker by
default
09:46 raphink ok
09:46 Riddell raphink: any idea if tonio managed to get it working out the box?
09:46 Psi-Jack raphink: Include it for kubuntu-desktop? Hmmm.. That /might/ not be so
bad.
09:47 Snake__ I would like to have it ACESSIBLE and INCLUDED but not on kicker by
default
09:47 incinerator i think it has some benefits for new users, particularly diagnosis
when net's not working
09:47 Hobbsee there's already an applet for network settings - rather weird though
09:47 raphink Riddell: yes he did from what he told me
09:47 Psi-Jack I'm going to install knemo, right now.
09:47 incinerator as an intermediate solution until knetworkmanager gets into main, good
idea
09:47 raphink Riddell: and sent you the knemorc
09:47 Tm_T I'd say no knemo for default
09:47 allee raphink: sent to kubunt-devel
09:47 Riddell raphink: he sent me a load of things but then said to wait because he
was working on something
09:48 Riddell if we get it working out the box, we then need a volunteer for the
main inclusion report
09:48 Hobbsee well, can we make knemo easy enough to add, yet not have it there
running by default?
09:48 raphink Riddell: as part of the latest kubuntu-default-settings he sent was
the knemorc that works
09:48 jpatrick Riddell: I have experience in that field
09:48 robotgeek raphink: it reads from /etc/network/interfaces ?
09:48 raphink sure Hobbsee taht's an option
09:48 Psi-Jack knemo is a kicker applet, right?
09:48 Riddell justification for knemo is that ubuntu gnome does have a similar
applet
09:48 Snake__ Hobbsee: If you right click kicker, under add applet, couldn't we just
have it inthere?
09:48 raphink robotgeek: I think it greps ifconfig
09:48 apachelogger Psi-Jack:
http://rosenberg.homelinux.net/wordpress/wp-content/knemo.png
09:48 Snake__ if people want it
09:48 Tm_T Hobbsee: +1 for that
09:48 raphink Psi-Jack: yes
09:49 Psi-Jack apachelogger: I'm looking at that now, and looking at my applet list,
after just installing it.
09:49 raphink ok
09:49 Snake__ Like the public file server, or quick launch?
09:49 raphink sooo
09:49 raphink here is what I propose
09:49 raphink a) don't do anything with knemo
09:49 raphink b) set knemo in kubuntu-default-settings nicely and use it by default
09:49 raphink c) set knemo in kubuntu-default-settings nicely and don't use it by
default
09:49 Snake__ +1 C
09:49 incinerator +1 c
09:49 raphink poll opened :)
09:49 apachelogger +1 C
09:49 robotgeek +1 b
09:49 Hobbsee +1 c
09:50 Psi-Jack +1 c
09:50 sealne +1 c
09:50 jpatrick +1 c
09:50 Riddell +1 b I think, may go for C if too many people complain
09:50 raphink +1 b
09:50 luka74 +1 c
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
09:50 sorush20 I can't vote since I haven't used and can't comment etc..
09:50 raphink 3
09:50 allee +1 for b) with only one icon as that has default route
09:50 raphink 2
09:50 raphink 1
09:50 Tm_T +1 c
09:50 raphink poll closed
09:50 sorush20 but if its is the esiest for the new users then
09:50 raphink :)
09:50 raphink ok Tm_T you get it ;)
09:50 amu b :)
09:50 Tm_T aye
09:50 raphink hehe
09:50 robotgeek buzzer beater
09:51 raphink I have to count for this one
09:51 raphink we have a majority of c) set knemo in kubuntu-default-settings nicely
and don't use it by default
09:51 raphink so ok
09:51 Snake__ Woot
09:51 raphink b) and c) have the same requirements anyway
09:51 jpatrick https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKNemo
09:51 raphink which is to get knemo in main + set it in kubuntu-default-settings
09:51 raphink then the difference is just in a dependency
09:51 Psi-Jack raphink: BTW, I have some things I don't think are in the agenda, that
I'd like to discuss more towards the closing.
09:51 raphink thanks jpatrick
09:52 jpatrick no problem
09:52 raphink Psi-Jack: we'll discuss them in the end of the talk ok?
09:52 raphink the _last_ of TOnio's point
09:52 Psi-Jack raphink: That's kinda what I wanted. Yes. Thanks. ;)
09:52 raphink then I'll let someone else talk for a bit
09:52 Riddell "The program works with no configuration needed" yet to be proven :)
09:52 raphink the last point is still about the fonts
09:52 raphink on the desktop
09:52 jpatrick whoops /me fixes
09:52 raphink tonio would like to go back to the way fonts where in hoary on the
desktop
09:53 raphink that is : white with black around them
09:53 raphink as they are now, it's impossible to use bright wallpapers
09:53 raphink without setting the fonts
09:53 Tm_T ok
Ah crap, I have something I would like to bring up, if there is time
09:53 Snake__ left, I didn't make it to the agenda either...its nothing big, but if
we can fit them in
09:53 raphink because they're white by default
=== Tm_T have only grey text in desktop
=== Hobbsee examines her fonts carefully...oh i see
09:53 raphink it's easy to have they white with a bit of black around them
09:53 Riddell Snake__: yes, at the end
09:53 Riddell raphink: that's the kde default I think
09:54 Snake__ raphink: How about like the taskbar, when its set to transparent font?
09:54 raphink + the fonts get dark when selected, so hard to see on a dark desktop
either
09:54 jpatrick (done)
09:54 raphink Riddell: yes, and windows and mac os too
=== robotgeek notices that he has a problem, +1 raphink
09:54 Riddell so lets do that then
09:54 raphink ok
09:54 Hobbsee Snake__: and Psi-Jack: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings is
back up, so why not add your points there for the end of the meeting?
09:54 raphink votes ?
09:54 Snake__ Choices?
09:54 Snake__ :)
09:54 raphink or do everyone agree on getting back to this default?
09:54 apachelogger yup
09:55 Riddell poll a) with border (KDE, hoary) b) with shodow (breezy)
09:55 luka74 +1 a
09:55 Snake__ A
09:55 sorush20 how about giving the desktop fonts some intelegence so that it can
decide on thresholds of colour and set it self accordingly... ?
09:55 incinerator +1 a)
09:55 apachelogger +1 a
09:55 robotgeek +1 a
09:55 raphink a
09:55 raphink ok thank you
09:55 Riddell sorush20: way too complex sounding
09:55 Tm_T a
Hobbsee: Mainly, because I'm trying to keep up with the meeting
09:55 Psi-Jack itself. And, my points, may be covered before the meeting is up or
not. I don't know for certain. ;)
09:55 robotgeek sorush20: that's a nice idea, but we are out of time
09:55 raphink sorush20: wait for KDE 4 for such things ;)
09:56 raphink ok
09:56 jpatrick and other goodies
09:56 Hobbsee nyah, lets just have a 2 hour meeting and be done with it :P
09:56 raphink that was it for Tonio's point
09:56 Snake__ I'll brb while I add stuff to the agenda (I hope that its not just a
bug on my desktop...I havn't consulted anyone else..)
09:56 raphink an hour on the points of someone who is not here ;)
09:56 Riddell any other default settings suggestions?
09:56 jpatrick freeflying is sleeping now...
09:56 raphink Riddell: that's about it for what tonio told me on the phone :)
09:56 luka74 raphink: can I ask now one related to default kubuntu-desktop's? (not
on agenda) or wait until end?
09:56 Riddell luka74: go
09:57 luka74 kpowersave vs. klaptop
09:57 Riddell luka74: yes
09:57 Tm_T Riddell: all default fonts are moved from bitstream to dejavu ?
09:57 Riddell luka74: kpowersave uses a bunch of clever scripts
09:57 Snake__ I would like to ask something about the kubuntu desktop as well...if I
may speak after this
09:57 sorush20 add recent documents opened to the kmenu by default and add the recent
applications by default to the kmenu
09:57 Riddell luka74: but ubuntu already has a better bunch of scripts and works
through hal
09:57 luka74 I used kpowersave (Suse default) for a month and looks good (at least
for hibernate)
09:57 Riddell luka74: so I (or someone) needs to work out how to get kpowersave to
just use hal + ubuntu scripts rather than the ones it comes with
09:57 apachelogger yeah kpowersave still has some advantages
09:58 Riddell but I don't want to use kpowersave with it's default scripts since
then we end up with a bunch of different bugs from ubuntu
09:58 luka74 Riddell: OK, makes sense - maybe for Dapper+!
09:58 luka74 Dapper+1
09:58 Snake__ Alright, is this just me, or does anyone else'
09:58 Snake__ s icons on their desktop get moved around on boot up
09:58 Riddell well if someone can change the scripts fast enough it could go into
dapper
09:59 Riddell Snake__: not me
09:59 Tm_T Snake__: pre- 3.5 bug
09:59 raphink Snake__: that is not a feature
09:59 jpatrick we have one week
09:59 raphink Snake__: we're discussing features :)
09:59 apachelogger Tm_T: actually I think it's pre-3.5.1
09:59 raphink jpatrick: +1
09:59 Snake__ raphink: :) good point, thanks
=== Snake__ shuts up
09:59 Snake__ :)
09:59 Psi-Jack Okay, I'm back with my frappuccino. :)
09:59 Riddell jpatrick: feature freeze?
09:59 Tm_T apachelogger: might be =)
09:59 jpatrick Riddell: yes
09:59 raphink ok
09:59 luka74 Riddell: I can look quickly into this, but I do not promise anything
(my first hacking with deb packages)
10:00 Snake__ Tm_T: I think hes right, because im on 3.5.1 and it still does it
10:00 Riddell luka74: it's the scripts in /usr/lib/powersave rather than the deb
that need changed
10:00 raphink let's get to _second_ main point of the agenda lol
10:00 Tm_T Snake__: I don't know, I dont have any icons in desktop
10:00 Riddell anyone know who Nirvana is?
10:00 apachelogger Snake__: maybe it's another bug you're talking about, coz aseigo fixed
that some time ago
10:00 raphink allee: do you want to talk about dpi more ?
10:00 luka74 OK, I will look into scripts and then ask somebody else to package if
I manage to fix something
10:00 apachelogger Riddell: a band
10:00 raphink is nirvana around?
10:01 jpatrick Riddell: big poster at the forums (Not here)
10:01 jpatrick aprofl
10:01 raphink apachelogger: that would be an answer to "was"
10:01 Riddell I don't understand what his agenda item is
10:01 apachelogger ah, right ;-)
10:01 apachelogger sry
10:01 raphink jpatrick: yeah and the automatix guy iirc
10:01 allee raphink: not yet. Maybe next meeting. When I created a sort of About
or HOWTO
10:01 raphink ok good
10:01 jpatrick apachelogger: rofl
10:01 raphink so let's go for freeflying's point ?
10:01 Hobbsee luka74: ping me if you need some help with packaging and i'll try to
help :)
10:01 jpatrick raphink: he is sleeping
10:02 luka74 Hobbsee: will do
10:02 raphink he's not around but other people have given their opinion
10:02 raphink jpatrick: do you want to express yourself on it
10:02 raphink ?
10:02 jpatrick I don't know really
10:02 jpatrick let's skip and keep for next meeting?
10:02 raphink ok
10:02 Riddell so index-search project?
10:02 raphink sure
10:02 sorush20 raphink: what is the second point on the adgenda
=== uniq [n=frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:02 raphink then it gets back to me
10:02 jpatrick luka74: or any of the MOTU KDE
10:03 raphink pipitas: are you still there?
10:03 jpatrick klik devs?
=== bfree is Niall Walsh (klik)
10:03 Riddell hi bfree, thanks for coming
10:03 raphink ok pipitas is not around it seems
10:03 raphink oh bfree you're here :)
10:03 raphink ok good
10:03 Riddell raphink: where are the klik packages at?
10:03 raphink thanks for being here bfree :)
10:03 raphink bfree: do you want to introduce klik to use ?
10:04 apachelogger I pinged pipitas an hour before the meeting, no anwser
10:04 raphink Riddell: I got the fuse ones in NEW today, that's the first step
10:04 Riddell raphink: oh, wow, didn't know that
10:04 raphink bfree: do you want to introduce klik for people who do not know it ?
10:04 bfree raphink: what about fusecram and fuseiso?
10:04 raphink bfree: packaged them today and got them in NEW
10:04 Snake__ SO what is klik
10:04 raphink ;)
10:04 raphink that was my work this morning when I woke up ;)
10:05 ogra Riddell, oh you want to switch from deb to autopackage ?
10:05 pipitas raphink: I'm back now
10:05 Riddell ogra: no no :)
10:05 ogra heh
klik.atekon.de ... a web based software installer which allows you to
10:05 bfree fetch deb packages extract and rework them into a portable filesystem
image
10:05 raphink ok I'll introduce the subject then :)
10:05 Riddell ogra: but if we can have klik as a safe option for people, that's
great
10:05 apachelogger pipitas: we need a introduction what klik is and what it does
10:05 raphink here is the idea
10:05 raphink thanks bfree :)
10:05 ogra Riddell, did you think about reworking gdebi instead ?
10:05 raphink basically the idea is
10:06 Riddell ogra: that's separate (yes we have)
10:06 raphink many users always want to test new apps
10:06 raphink without having to install dapper or a dapper chroot
10:06 Hobbsee what does klik do about dependancies? does it go to apt to get them?
10:06 jpatrick Hobbsee: it's site
10:06 apachelogger Hobbsee: it includes everyting
10:06 raphink and backports are not the easiest thing to keep up-to-date and in good
shape
10:06 Psi-Jack Yikes.
10:06 bfree it uses apt on the server to calculate the required dependencies
10:06 Hobbsee right - must be huge files then
10:06 apachelogger Hobbsee: or at least the stuff any distro might not have
10:06 Snake__ So, we just download the most up to date packaged we would want?
10:06 Hobbsee gotcha
10:07 raphink klik generates cmg packages that contain most required dependencies
for the app
10:07 Psi-Jack What what are we proposing about klik?
10:07 Riddell so the koffice klik file includes the whole of koffice, kdelibs, qt,
libstdc++ and all dependencies. how big is that?
10:07 atie bfree, curious, does klik still uses fstab to keep temp fs?
10:07 bfree atie: that is where fuse comes in :-)
10:07 apachelogger Riddell: well, at this point ... not libstdc++, not qt and probably
also not kdelibs
klik puts executable binaries and direct dependency libraries into its
10:07 pipitas own self-containing filesystem hierarchy, compresses them into a file
system image and uses a wrapper to mount that filesystem and run it
10:08 ogra exactly ... thats what autopackage does
10:08 Snake__ Hmmm
10:08 Riddell ah, so it still has binary compatibility issues with c++ and qt, fair
enough
10:08 Tm_T BTW might be slightly off-topic but is there any jobs to artwork team?
10:08 Snake__ Tm_T: Very offtopic :)
10:08 ogra Riddell, more evil, i can put any kind of binarys in this packages ...
10:08 Riddell Tm_T: ask at end
klik is similar to what "AppDirs" were in NeXT and still are in Mac OS
10:08 pipitas -- but it adds the compression and the "1 application == 1 file" idea
and the web service to auto-build them from "real" packages
10:08 Tm_T aye
10:09 sorush20 klik sound like a very good idea getting closer to source intall
10:09 raphink you might ask that to artwork team Tm_T
10:09 Riddell ogra: well security is the reson why I havn't touched it yet
10:09 ogra yup
10:09 raphink indeed
=== Snake__ has no vote here..but will try it out later
10:09 Riddell so pipitas, bfree when I do klik:/koffice I presume that comes from 1
server?
10:09 Psi-Jack What are we proposing for klik? To add it to an official apt
repository or somethinh?
10:09 ogra and why we havent even a autopackage package in ubunru yet
the dependencies klik puts into your final image depends on the
packages it assumes are installed for your distribution ... so if a
10:09 bfree package requires something newer then the users base installed system
would have it includes it when building the cmg (compressed filesystem
image)
10:09 raphink the idea is of course not to make it the default packaging system ;)
10:09 ogra haha
10:09 atie klik is worth to have as long as new svn packages provided, imo.
10:10 raphink but it would prevent users from installing lots of unofficial packages
around, messing their sources.list with trashy stuff and so on
10:10 Tm_T raphink: true
=== nlindblad [n=nlindbla@user179.217-10-120.netatonce.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:10 pipitas For the current KOffice-1.5-Beta testing the KOffice devs cooperated
with us to provide kliks.
10:10 robotgeek yup, that would be great
10:10 bfree it's so a non-root user can simply install the latest firefox/gaim/???
without risking ANY potential damage to the system as a whole
10:10 pipitas Sizes for Koffice kliks are listed here:
http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/KOffice-1.5.0_DistroTable
10:10 incinerator what about dotfiles in the home directory?
10:10 nlindblad bfree, that's one basic philosophy of UNIX
10:10 incinerator will they be interfered with?
10:11 raphink incinerator: well i'm beginning to see if I can work on porting klik
to install in /usr
10:11 Riddell can anyone make a klik bundle or does it have to come from the klik
server?
10:11 atie bfree, I concur with you that's beauty of klik
10:11 bfree incinerator: a specific klik program can choose to use it's own
.files, but usually yes it will mess with you .files
10:11 raphink we surely don't want debs to install anything in ~
10:11 incinerator bfree: dangerous...
10:11 incinerator but on the other hand, what else can it do if you want your
settings....
=== raphink thinks maybe this topic should actually be brought to next TB
10:12 incinerator i don't know, as long as klik isn't so broken as openpkg or whatever,
it might be useful to be put into universe
10:12 jpatrick :)
10:12 apachelogger Riddell: afaik anyone can make one, but it's not common
10:12 incinerator but I surely would not make it the default....
10:12 bfree anyone can make a klik like bundle, but all klik://foo links will draw
from the one server
10:12 sorush20 how about having a klik package manger?
10:12 Riddell bfree: right, that's what I was wondering
10:12 Snake__ How about integrating it into adept..
10:12 pipitas Riddell, all: I propose to add all the basic info (again) in summary
form to http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/Dapper
10:12 jpatrick sorush20: not trying to replace apt
10:13 raphink sorush20: non sense
10:13 Riddell bfree: is there any kind of gpg signing?
10:13 apachelogger sorush20: would include that you can't move the kliks
10:13 sorush20 jpatrick: raphink that is what Snake was saying?
10:13 raphink Riddell: good question :)
10:13 bfree the idea of klik is that it doesn't need to be managed ... you end up
with one file per "klik" so you can just delete it/move it/whatever
10:13 apachelogger sorush20: big advantage, so you can keep your software on a usb stick
always with you
10:13 Snake__ Hmm
10:14 raphink bfree: the idea of signing packages is that it is reliable
10:14 sorush20 apachelogger: that is a great idea
10:14 incinerator bfree: sounds complicated to me
10:14 pipitas klik app files may be moved to any dir (or CD/USBstick) and run from
there
10:14 bfree Riddell: nope, as of now it does not do any checking ... it could be
done, but may be messy for the end user
10:14 Snake__ incinerator: from what I can tell, you get klik, go to their site,
download what you want, and your done...I guess
=== Snake__ doesn't fully understand it
10:15 incinerator snake: fair enough if that's the case
10:15 raphink Snake__: that's about it
10:15 Riddell bfree: that's quite a blocker for distributions to support it by
default
10:15 pipitas Riddell: klik uses fake URLs like "klik://umbrello"
10:15 raphink Snake__: you basically download a filesystem image that contains all
you need to run the app
for example, the koffice 1.5 kliks draw from a different package
10:15 bfree repository ... the end user would have to add it's gpg key to verify
them (most packages come from debian so checking them is easier)
10:15 Psi-Jack klik. Is it KDE-UI, console, or what?
10:15 incinerator as long as (k)ubuntu devs don't waste their time with preparing kliks
instead of debs....
10:15 Riddell pipitas: so if someone takes over the klik server everyone is in
trouble! :)
=== sladen [n=paul@193.28.45.41] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:15 pipitas fake URL makes the klik client fetch (not the ready-made .cmg but) a
"recipe" from klik server
10:15 Snake__ incinerator: +1
10:16 apachelogger Psi-Jack: actually KDE, but supportes other DE's also
10:16 incinerator ;-)
10:16 apachelogger afaik
10:16 Psi-Jack I see..
10:16 raphink bfree: gpg keys are not linked to repositories, they are linked to
whoever signed the package
10:16 jpatrick incinerator: don't worry about that
10:16 Psi-Jack Then I have no use for something like klik, myself.
10:16 bfree you actually download the individual packages required to make the
bundles, only a few kliks will leave you downloading a bundle directly
10:16 pipitas the recipe points the client to (usually) a Debian repository to fetch
a .deb from (may also be a .tgz Slack or .rpm package)
10:16 pipitas the fetched package is extracted in /tmp and re-assembled into a .cmg
10:17 Snake__ Why should we do this rather than apt, tho?
10:17 robotgeek and what about different architectures?
10:17 Psi-Jack Snake__: We shouldn't.
10:17 jpatrick Snake__: for testing new thingys
10:17 bfree and that rpm/tgz could be coming from skype/real/??? as well as foss
projects ... do they even sign their stuff?
10:17 raphink to test new apps without installing and messing people's systems
10:17 pipitas users' "dot" files in $HOME may be effected if s.th. goes wrong -- but
never the system
10:17 Snake__ I see
10:17 apachelogger Snake__: testing, mobility, usablity....
10:18 Snake__ So I could just download this single file, stick it on my USB and it
will run wherever I want it to?
10:18 incinerator perhaps some magic to make a backup of potentially affected dotfiles?
10:18 Snake__ USB Stick**
10:18 jpatrick Snake__: yes
10:18 sorush20 klik and autopackage sound similar but klik seems to be lot less
dependent on the os installed on the computer..
but all the klik://koffice-somthing and the
10:18 pipitas current klik://amarok-svn-nightly set up a differnt "dotfile"
environment
10:19 Riddell how does a person get a klik package on the klik server?
10:19 apachelogger alt-f2 klik://whatever
installing a second autopackage can upset one you installed earlier,
10:19 bfree klik locks things into a confined space so they won't break anything
else (bar .dotfiles as mentioned)
10:19 pipitas difference of klik and autopackage: klik does not compile from sources
-- a.p. does
10:19 amu sorush20: nope, they should be the same
10:19 apachelogger Riddell: or visit the website, choose the app, click the link and it
starts klik://whatever
=== Psi-Jack taps his foot.
10:20 raphink Psi-Jack: hehe ;)
10:20 raphink ok
10:20 Riddell but I'm wondering who puts them on the server? presumably bfree?
a.p. defines a set of "quality tools" to make "better builds" -- klik
10:20 pipitas devs actually would very much like to see a.p. standards + tools used
for building everywhere :)
10:20 raphink well that's quite an intro and I think this has to be thought about
10:20 apachelogger Riddell: recipe maintainers
10:20 jpatrick yum
10:20 Psi-Jack klik would be great as an individual package, but should be just that.
Optional.
10:20 raphink and brought up to TB maybe
10:21 Riddell raphink: once the packages are through NEW you can advertise them to
the mailing list etc and people can give feedback
10:21 raphink Psi-Jack: of course, it shoudl only be optional
10:21 apachelogger Psi-Jack: it will not replace apt ;-)
10:21 raphink Riddell: yes that's an idea
Riddell: if you want something that isn't there tell us about it :-)
10:21 bfree all relevant debian packages should be there already and many others
have been added ... I haven't added any but pipitas and probono are
more involved with that side of things
10:21 raphink ok
10:21 Psi-Jack apachelogger: The day apt is replaced, I go back to some other distro.
:)
10:21 bfree klik is NOT an apt replacement ... in fact klik depends on apt (on the
server)
10:21 sladen bfree: currently this downloads an unsigned executable script and runs
it locally?
klik's main use case (IMHO) is for testing bleeding edge software
10:21 pipitas without endangering the system (some people use it even for having
lots of add-on software permanently)
10:21 apachelogger Psi-Jack: ;-)
10:21 raphink Psi-Jack: it won't be, there's no reason
10:22 Psi-Jack raphink: I know. I'm not suggesting it was to replace it. LOL
10:22 raphink Psi-Jack: hehe
10:22 Riddell but it does need gpg signing before kubuntu or ubuntu would look at it
for main
10:22 Psi-Jack I'm just saying, a package like klik should be offered. It's a GREAT
idea.
I think it would be a plus for kubuntu...I know i've wanted some
10:22 Snake__ software that wouldn't complie or was in the repos, but I see it on
here...
10:22 bfree sladen: yes :-(
10:22 Psi-Jack Just like I want to build a Lexmark Z600 .deb for Kubuntu. ;)
10:22 pipitas klik is not aiming to replace *any* existing package management
system. It is *not* a pack man syst and never will be one.
10:22 allee sladen: like apt did for year
10:22 Riddell even then it's tricky since it would mean us saying we suggest someone
else's packages
10:22 robotgeek i think it's great, new users might find it very useful. instead of
compiling stuff on their own/someone else's checkinstall debs/etc
10:23 pipitas klik relies on apt for "serverside apt" :)
10:23 ogra sladen, and modifies user configs unintetional :)
10:23 Hobbsee robotgeek: +1
10:23 raphink Psi-Jack: you're welcome to it anytime
10:23 Psi-Jack raphink: I gotta re-learn how to use .deb tools, first. LOL
10:23 Riddell any other klik business?
10:23 raphink Psi-Jack: any time on -motu we're there ;)
pipitas: well there's should be therorethically no difference if you
10:23 amu install a deb, or a set of deb, they should be also easy removeable,
without touching the sys :) if not its a bug in the deb package, klick
is an nice optional thing
10:23 raphink ok
10:23 Psi-Jack raphink: I've also gotta finish helping Seveas fix up his
dsp-hijacker. :D
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
10:24 raphink Riddell: I think that's it
10:24 Psi-Jack raphink: -motu?
10:24 Riddell what's next? working with debian packagers?
10:24 raphink Psi-Jack: #ubuntu-motu
10:24 Hobbsee Psi-Jack: #ubuntu-motu
10:24 raphink Riddell: yep
10:24 Psi-Jack Oh.. Okay...
10:24 Riddell allee: isn't that irc channel super sekret?
10:24 raphink allee: you're up
10:24 Psi-Jack LOL. I see. :)
amu: with .debs you can only have one version of an app at one time --
10:24 pipitas with klik you can have various. That's why I say "for testing it is
ideal"
10:24 allee no it isn't but when you produce unwnated input your baned quickly
10:25 Tm_T pipitas: true
10:25 Psi-Jack allee: Unwanted input == *.deb SUCKS? :)
=== jpatrick has to go
10:25 amu pipitas: nope, you can define a set of package, a metapackge which do
the same
10:25 raphink jpatrick: it's almost done though
10:25 Riddell allee: I put all the kubuntu KDE packaging on alioth, do you think
that's useful?
10:25 raphink jpatrick: do you want me to save the log somewhere?
10:25 allee Psi-Jack: as in: OT -> kicked
I'll go through the log and add to the wiki side what has been raised
10:25 pipitas here. See http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/Dapper from tomorrow or
so
10:25 raphink jpatrick: so you can do the minutes
10:25 Psi-Jack allee: Gotcha. Okay. Thanks.
10:26 Riddell pipitas: thanks
=== Burgwork [n=corey@d66-183-174-128.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:26 Riddell thanks bfree too
10:26 jpatrick raphink: I'll write minutes later and there's online logs
10:26 raphink thanks pipitas and bre
10:26 Hobbsee ping?
10:26 raphink bfree:
=== bfree thanks you all for your interest and wishes you all good luck with your next
kubuntu release
10:26 raphink ok allee, next point?
10:26 raphink bfree: thanks :)
10:26 allee About 'working to gether'. It's nothing to vote about ;)
=== Burgwork [n=corey@d66-183-174-128.bchsia.telus.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting
["Leaving"]
10:26 raphink allee: :)
10:26 allee just and offer and to all kubuntu pkg know that it's there.
10:26 Tm_T allee: that's totally out of question, right?
10:27 jpatrick I have some KDE packages that I could ask to get into Debian
10:27 Riddell Tm_T: what is?
=== Snake__ goes to check klik
10:27 Tm_T Riddell: nothing
pipitas: you know, there is no advantage, except it looks colorfull
10:27 amu and it sounds easy, and of course it doesnt match with debian
policy.
10:27 allee When you use it, you simple work closer together because both sides
see it.
10:27 Riddell allee: what the best process for MOTUs getting packages back into
Debian?
10:27 raphink amu: please keep the conversation on klik on #klik
10:27 pipitas amu: it doesnt aim to match with Debian policy :)
10:28 Psi-Jack Okay.
10:28 ogra Riddell, the utnubu team in debian ...
10:28 allee Riddell: hard to tell. Everything added to KDe extra found it way
into debian
10:28 ogra Riddell, join it on alioth
10:28 allee when therer suddenly dozends of new pkg. Overload effect happen :)
10:28 raphink ogra: :)
10:29 raphink allee: I think contributing to Debian has been discussed, even trolled
on, several times
10:29 raphink allee: there are wiki pages about it
10:29 raphink allee: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
10:30 allee raphink: yes, I know. How likes it, use the oppertunity, it's pretty
KDE centric and no fancy support tools
10:30 raphink it's surely a good idea to try and get more in touch with Debian KDE
packagers
10:30 raphink allee: so your point is to advertise this IRC channel, right?
10:30 allee just a bit of overlap between debian and kubuntu. At the important
point. the changes in debian/ dir
10:31 raphink what changes in debian/ are you talking about?
10:31 allee raphink: no. the svn repo for KDE debian/ dirs
10:31 raphink ah ok
10:31 Riddell allee: what KDE DD's do we have these days? isaac, dato?
10:31 allee raphink: the repo contains the debian dirs of pkgs
10:32 raphink Riddell: claude
10:32 allee Mark Purcell mainly
=== hunger [n=tobias@p54A6356F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:32 jpatrick allee: like kmplayer?
10:32 allee isaac, dato and some other help on request and as time permits
10:32 allee But Paul is the quickest sponsor I've ever heard about
10:33 ArmeBosse paul ?
10:33 allee ArmeBosse: Argl. Paul Purcell, sorry. Mark was my first sponsor :(
10:33 ArmeBosse ok :)
10:34 allee ArmeBosse: Mark Purcell that is.
10:34 raphink ok we're getting in Debian/dev related things and I'd like to be able
to set a date for next meeting before most people leave :)
=== allee needs sleep
10:34 raphink if that's fine
10:34 ArmeBosse yep for kde extras, mark is the the guy
10:34 Psi-Jack Hehe.
=== Riddell tries to remember ArmeBosse's real name
10:35 ArmeBosse fathi boudra :)
10:35 raphink allee: is it fine if we move on to next meeting's date?
10:35 Riddell ah hah!
10:35 Riddell any other business first
10:35 jpatrick raphink: anything between 5UTC - 8UTC for me to be there
(unforturately)
10:35 allee yeap. Nothing more to add
10:35 raphink ok
10:35 Riddell amu: ?
10:35 raphink anyone still has anything to say?
10:35 raphink I mean another /topic that was not in the agenda?
10:35 Riddell did Psi-Jack?
10:35 Psi-Jack raphink: I did. :)
10:35 Hobbsee and Snake__?
10:35 jpatrick I think Tm_t did
10:36 raphink Psi-Jack: go ahead then
10:36 amu Riddell: klickibunti?
10:36 Riddell waiting on Psi-Jack now...
My issues, involves the problems I noticed with, for whatever reasons,
10:36 Psi-Jack the kde defaults for the Konqueror use, breaks the proper use of
kfmclient's profiles for File Manager, and Web Browser profiles.
10:36 raphink amu: lol
10:37 amu raphink: hehe, thats a real thing :)
10:37 Riddell Psi-Jack: what's broken?
As it is, if one loads up Konqueror, as Web Browser, and uses a
10:38 Psi-Jack desktop icon to load up their DVD, or CD, or, even the System Menu to
open their home dir, it loads it up into a new tab of the Web Browser
window.
10:38 Riddell Psi-Jack: these have changed a lot in dapper, no tabs for everything,
konqueror opens in new windows now
10:38 raphink amu: oh yeah
10:38 allee Riddell: startup konqueror, set, eg. show bookmark toolbar, save
it. start konqueror again no toolbar
10:38 atie Psi-Jack, +1, don't want to see bookmark at file manager profile
10:38 Psi-Jack Riddell: Does it make /proper/ use of Konqueror profiles?
10:38 Riddell the bookmark toolbar is weird
10:38 Riddell Psi-Jack: sure, look in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings
10:38 Tm_T I dont want to mess default profiles at all
10:38 Psi-Jack Konqueror has a profile system that works abolutely greatly, when USED
properly. ;)
10:38 allee Riddell: it never was until last big defaults update
10:38 Riddell Psi-Jack: but konqueror has some bugs
10:39 Psi-Jack Riddell: Dapper's or Breezy? :)
10:39 allee but hat more something for lauchpad and #kubuntu-devel IMHO
10:39 Riddell Psi-Jack: look at dapepr since that's what we're working on, let me
know if you have specific changes you'd like
10:39 Psi-Jack Riddell: Could you send me what dapper has for that, so far? I don't
run Dapper, till it's stable. ;)
10:40 Riddell Psi-Jack: find it on archive.ubuntu.com
10:40 Riddell latest kubuntu-default-settings
10:40 jjesse check out the release notes :)
10:40 Psi-Jack Alright. That'll work too.
10:40 Riddell Psi-Jack: or try flight 4, coming out tomorrow!
10:40 Riddell ok, amu
10:40 amu Riddell: all right
10:41 jpatrick anything else? (so I can do minutes)
10:41 amu maybe some of you know, heart about it
10:41 amu klickibunti is a webgui, users can build their own customized iso
images.
10:41 raphink any other topic?
10:41 Psi-Jack Has the other issue with the "autorun" facility of KDE in Dapper been
fixed to not give errors about opening media:/hd? as well?
10:41 Riddell Psi-Jack: yes
10:41 Riddell Psi-Jack: do gi*ve flight 4 a try :)
10:41 Riddell amu: based on ubuntu/kubuntu CDs?
10:41 amu the idea comes some years ago, i was too busy building iso :)
10:41 Psi-Jack Riddell: Hmmm.. What is flight 4? LOL
10:42 jpatrick Psi-Jack: forth dapper testing cd
10:42 raphink Psi-Jack: the dapper snapshot
10:42 Psi-Jack Ahh..
10:42 amu Riddell: lets say debian based :) of course kubuntu is the first
chosse
10:42 amu s/choose
10:42 Psi-Jack Riddell: Tomorrow? :)
10:42 Riddell of course
10:42 Tm_T if there's any artwork needs before any freezes in that front, I'd
like to know :)
10:42 Riddell Psi-Jack: friday
10:42 Riddell amu: what's the status of it?
10:42 Psi-Jack Riddell: I'll try it out on my testing HDD, and get back with you. :)
10:42 amu users upload their desktop background, install their own packages /
files
10:43 raphink amu: link?
10:43 amu Riddell: i'm busy in onother project, zero time for it now :( maybe a
workgroup can handle it
10:43 amu raphink: not published now
10:43 raphink amu: ok
10:43 Riddell amu: do you have a server for it? I'd imagine it's very CPU/disk
intensive
10:44 jpatrick everyone done?
10:44 amu Riddell: yep
10:44 Psi-Jack I'm done. :)
10:44 raphink jpatrick: soon I guess
10:44 Riddell amu: I'd say make a wiki page with your ideas and post to the mailing
list to see if anyone is willing to work on it
10:44 amu Riddell: it's limited to known users, everyone its impossible
10:44 Riddell amu: yeah, I can imagine that
10:45 raphink interesting project though amu, and I can easily see how to improve it
10:45 Riddell amu: and you have the scripts for this yes? so it's just a case of
putting a web front end onto it
10:45 amu Riddell: sound good, well it looks easier if i finish it instead of
explaining to others
10:46 Riddell amu: I think there would be a lot of demand for it though
10:46 amu Riddell: basic build scripts are ready, the php? code is the missing
component
10:46 raphink amu: yeah make a wiki and a snapshot of it :)
10:46 raphink building a live CD requires about an hour on a standard comp
10:46 amu raphink: sounds possible for a spacial group of people, my hardware is
limited :)
10:46 raphink (2GHz proc with 512MB RAM)
10:47 amu raphink: i redcuded it to 15min. with an cache option maybe 8-9
minutes are possible
10:47 raphink you'd need several machines to handle a large demand
10:47 raphink amu: wow nice :)
10:47 raphink ok
10:47 raphink well since jpatrick has to go and is our secretary tonight :)
10:47 Riddell agenda done?
10:48 amu high end hardware, dual xeoan 2,6, 2gig ram, raid scsi
10:48 raphink it would be good to end up setting a date for next meeting
10:48 Hobbsee when's our next meeting?
10:48 raphink amu: :D :D
10:48 Riddell I say we could have these monthly
10:48 Hobbsee stupid lag...
10:48 amu s/xeon
10:48 raphink Riddell: I would say more often
10:48 raphink Riddell: there are points planned for today that we switched to next
time
10:48 Psi-Jack Yeah, more often. :)
10:48 Hobbsee fortnightly?
10:48 raphink and maybe need to be talked about before FF
10:49 jpatrick raphink: I'll done minutes and place on wiki tomorrow
10:49 raphink this meeting has shown useful I think
10:49 Riddell well I already have the weekly distro meetings, too many meeting for
me :)
10:49 Riddell but if it's not 2 hours each time more often is ok
10:49 amu Riddell: fosdem time, i'll show you the things :)
10:49 jpatrick indeed :)
10:49 raphink Riddell: you can come to one over two
10:49 Riddell amu: yes please :)
10:49 raphink Riddell: won't be two hours each time if it's more often
10:49 raphink I'd propose to have a meeting once every 2 weeks
10:50 raphink what do you think?
10:50 Riddell same time next wednesday?
10:50 jpatrick Good to me
10:50 Riddell no, 2 weeks wednesday
10:50 raphink I'd like that but it's not possible
10:50 jpatrick that's excellent
10:50 jpatrick :/
10:50 amu Riddell: did you announced the new live images?
10:50 raphink Riddell: we need to discuss some other things before FF
10:50 raphink so next week would be better for next meeting
10:50 raphink but next wenesday same time is Dapper Status
10:51 Riddell amu: not yet, will do though
10:51 raphink oh no sorry ;)
10:51 raphink thats thursday
10:51 raphink hehe
10:51 raphink ok
10:51 raphink well next wednesday is fine for me
10:51 raphink are there still people around to give their opinion?
10:52 Riddell would think Hobbsee would want something later
10:52 raphink jpatrick, Riddell, Psi-Jack, Hobbsee, Tm_T allee
10:52 Hobbsee Riddell: hmmm?
10:52 amu raphink: well maybe my account at k.o
10:52 amu :)
10:52 jpatrick next wenesday's fine :)
10:52 Hobbsee cant go any later - uni starts in 2 weeks, as much as i'd like to
10:52 Tm_T raphink: all fine
10:52 Psi-Jack Oh.
10:52 Riddell raphink: same time next wednesday then
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10:53 jpatrick brilliant
10:53 raphink who is fine for next wednesday 20 UTC ? raise hands ?
10:53 Psi-Jack Any day, around 8 UTC is perfect for me, just like today. :)
10:53 Psi-Jack 20 UTC?
10:53 Riddell I am
10:53 luka74 ok with me
10:53 Riddell Psi-Jack: todays was at 20UTC
10:53 seth I can do 20 UTC again
10:53 Psi-Jack Okay. Yeah, I'm good with that. ;)
10:53 Riddell right, thanks all, I'm off to the pub
10:53 raphink Psi-Jack: 20 = 8 PM
10:53 Hobbsee 20 UTC is fine
10:53 Hobbsee haha enjoy
10:53 Tm_T Riddell: lucky you =)
10:53 raphink Riddell: have a nice time there
10:54 atie <-- love kubuntu. Bye everyone, good to be here.
10:54 raphink ok
10:54 allee raphink: wednesday day is fine
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10:54 raphink that's about it
10:54 Hobbsee too early for the pub yet..
10:54 raphink atie: bye
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10:54 raphink goooooood :)
10:54 robotgeek good fun meeting! later all
10:54 Psi-Jack Hobbsee: Heh
=== raphink streches his muscles :)
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10:54 Tm_T sir's, off ->
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10:55 Psi-Jack I must say. I'm glad to see Kubuntu actually holding meetings like
this.
10:55 raphink Psi-Jack: so am I :)
10:55 raphink this is a success :)
10:55 Hobbsee hold it, next wednesday 20UTC?
10:55 raphink yes Hobbsee
10:55 Hobbsee isnt today thursday for you all?
10:56 raphink I'll post to the ML about it
10:56 Riddell Hobbsee: not yet
10:56 Psi-Jack This is also what will help keep Kubuntu united as a community, and
what the community wants and needs. That's very important to Kubuntu.
10:56 raphink yes Hobbsee but next thursday is already taken
10:56 raphink Riddell: sure it's thursday today :p
10:56 allee raphink: Wednesday is better :)
10:56 Hobbsee right, so it's your wednesday, and my thursday, 2 march, i take it?
10:56 raphink allee: thursday is not possible next week anyway
10:56 mjg59 pwd
10:56 mjg59 NNGH.
10:56 Psi-Jack Oh shoot..
10:56 mjg59 (sorry)
10:57 raphink no Hobbsee
10:57 Psi-Jack I was gonna ask one more question. And just now remembered. ;)
10:57 raphink Hobbsee: my wednesday 22nd, 20 UTC
=== Hobbsee 's brain explodes in a puff of smoke
10:57 raphink Hobbsee: your thursday 23rd I guess
10:57 Hobbsee ah, one week away, right :)
10:57 raphink mjg59: lol
10:57 Hobbsee gotcha
10:57 allee raphink: me is normally on the highway on thursday night. Today is a
big exception
10:57 raphink mjg59: /home/kubuntu/meeting
Skype! Seveas has a perfectly working Skype package, and with me
10:57 Psi-Jack fixing up some final touches to his skype-dsp-hijacker, I think skype
needs to be available in the Universe or Multiverse.
10:58 raphink allee: lucky exception then
10:58 allee yes
10:58 raphink ok
10:58 raphink meeting is over
10:58 raphink :)
10:58 raphink ------------------------------------
10:58 Hobbsee no! hold the meeting! it cant be over!
10:58 Hobbsee :PMeetingLogs/Kubuntu_2006-02-16 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:28:11 by localhost)