DocTeam_2005-12-02
11:02 kjcole Hullo? Is there a meeting about to happen?
11:03 Seveas no
11:03 Seveas or actually yes
11:03 Seveas docteam
11:03 Seveas according to the agenda
11:03 kjcole Seveas, that's what I thought. It just seemed a bit quiet.
11:04 Seveas yeah
11:05 LaserJock I'm here but I will probably be in-and-out
11:06 kjcole Is anyone supposed to herd the cats? (I'm just a cat here, not a
cat-herder.)
11:06 LaserJock lol, seems all the herders are missing :-)
11:07 kjcole Meow, then.
=== mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:08 mdke any docteam around?
11:09 azeem 23:01 < LaserJock> I'm here but I will probably be in-and-out
11:09 mdke thanks azeem
11:10 mdke the agenda is a bit sparse this week...
11:11 kjcole mdke, ubuntu-doc
11:15 mdke i'll hang around just in case anyone turns up
11:17 LaserJock so is there a meeting or no?
11:18 mdke in theory yeah
11:19 LaserJock mdke: are the Burger's going to be here?
11:19 kjcole I'm making noise in some other channels to see if I can scare up
people (or cats, as I said earlier).
11:21 mdke not sure LaserJock
=== kjcole has returned from the wilds of other channels... and it doesn't look
promising.
11:22 mdke ah, we can talk about the xml vs html issue if anyone has any
immediate thoughts
11:23 mdke i only just posted it to the list
11:23 kjcole OK. What's a good validating XML editor?
11:24 mdke i don't know one, why?
11:24 kjcole I'm fooling around with Conglomerate, but wonder what's available,
because I'm writing a doc from existing sources in XML.
My co-editor wants to throw it all out and go with Twisted Matrix's
11:25 kjcole documentation system Lore. He's very enthusiastic about it, but I
see us going off on a tangent.
11:26 kjcole A few DocTeam members have said "Don't worry about the format. Worry
about the content. We'll take care of the reformatting."
11:26 mdke is this edubuntu stuff?
11:26 kjcole It just seemed silly to me not to take advantage of the existing
format.
11:26 kjcole mdke, yeah. Edubuntu.
11:26 mdke you have a different mailing list for edubuntu docs?
11:27 kjcole mdke, I think I'm losing track. I don't know.
11:27 mdke :)
11:27 mdke i haven't heard of any of that stuff, so I guess you must!
11:28 kjcole mdke, it wasn't in a mailing list. It was either a docteam meeting
or a edubutu meeting here. More likely edubutu meeting.
11:28 mdke ahh
11:29 mdke well i haven't heard of lore or conglomerate either :)
mdke, it all blurs together for me as what I'm working on is trying
11:29 kjcole to get accessible documentation for deaf students = docteam, edubutu,
accessibility teams.
11:30 mdke ah interesting
11:30 mdke but you're not using our repository to store the documentation?
11:30 kjcole Conglomerate I found when I was looking for a validating XML
editor. Haven't played with it much yet, but it looks good.
11:30 mdke you should feel free to if you like
11:31 kjcole mdke, trying to learn everything: I'm fooling around in bzr for the
moment.
11:31 kjcole mdke, the branch is registered on Launchpad.
11:32 mdke ah fair enough
11:32 mdke cookbook?
mdke, my big concern is that by trying to learn everything, I'll
11:33 kjcole accomplish nothing. (XML, DocBook, bzr, RCS in general, launchpad,
and living in a Debian-like universe, when coming from a a RedHat
one.)
11:33 kjcole mdke, yep. Cookbook.
11:34 mdke heh
11:34 mdke i started learning xml and svn together
11:35 mdke you kinda do whatever you can to get stuff done
lore is a kind of watered-down XML or watered-up XHTML. I'm not
11:35 kjcole really impressed with what I've seen of it. Docbook XML looks like
it's more promising, but considerably more complex as well.
11:35 mdke ah
"lore" is the command to post-process the pages into something more
11:36 kjcole standard. Conglomerate on the other hand, is a validating XML editor,
not an XML processor... at least I don't think it is.
11:37 mdke k
11:37 mdke gedit is nice :)
11:39 kjcole mdke, Does gedit do anything special? (I thought it was just your
basic editor. I've used it a couple of times.)
11:39 mdke syntax highlighting, more or less ;)
11:39 mdke i use the validation script in the docteam repo
11:39 kjcole mdke, we should probably clear outa here, since as a meeting log,
this is going to be useless to anyone else.
11:40 mdke yes
11:40 mdke is anyone interested in talking about any agenda items?
11:40 mdke any initial thoughts on whether to ship xml or html?
11:42 LaserJock I am but I don't count for much
11:42 LaserJock xml or xhtml?
11:43 mdke LaserJock,
http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-December/004486.html
11:44 rob1 hi I'm here
11:44 mdke rob1, no real meeting to speak of, hope you didnt quit your shopping
for us
11:44 rob1 no
11:44 mdke rob1, i was just asking for any initial thoughts on the xml vs html
thread I just started on -doc and -desktop
=== JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
11:44 rob1 my wife wants me to burn a cd of photos so we can get them printed
off
11:45 LaserJock mdke: can we ship both but default to html?
11:45 mdke LaserJock, shipping both would be kinda confusing for the user
I think we should ship as html for now if we can, but I might if I
11:46 rob1 get time have a crack at getting yelp to use our xslt if I get the
time
11:46 LaserJock mdke: does the user have to know?
11:46 mdke LaserJock, we can ship both but have only one appear in the yelp
menu, for sure
11:46 LaserJock mdke: that is what I meant
11:46 mdke rob1, we can do that, but i don't really see the point in forcing the
user to suffer the speed reduction
11:46 LaserJock I like the sidbar, but it is slow
11:46 LaserJock *sidebar
11:47 rob1 mdke, that is true.
11:47 rob1 how will it effect translations?
11:47 rob1 html that is?
11:47 mdke rob1, i'm pretty sure it won't affect them
11:47 rob1 mdke, what was the problem last time?
11:47 mdke rob1, the About Ubuntu icon in the menu needs xml for translations to
work
11:48 rob1 was that the only thing stopping us from shipping html last time
11:48 rob1 ?
11:49 mdke afaics
11:49 mdke that, and the fact that I didn't know how to use scrollkeeper
11:49 rob1 just reading your email now..
11:49 mdke i'll do some tests on the translations
even if it doesn't get its own app, can we convert it to xml and load
11:50 rob1 it into launchpad for translations, then convert to html again like
the rest of our docs?
11:50 mdke eh?
11:51 mdke about ubuntu?
11:51 rob1 about ubuntu is html right?
11:51 mdke it is xml already
11:51 rob1 oh
11:51 mdke :)
11:51 rob1 thats odd then
11:52 rob1 why couldn't that be shipped as html too along with the rest of our
docs?
11:52 mdke it could, if the menu item is going to be something else
11:52 mdke the launcher from the menu needs it to be in xml
11:52 rob1 why?
=== mdke shrugs
11:53 mdke the command is "yelp ghelp:about-ubuntu"
11:53 mdke whatever the hell that is, it wants xml
11:54 rob1 well the yelp man page sucks
11:54 mdke anything else of interest on the agenda?
11:55 rob1 have you looked at common-tasks.xml today?
11:55 Riddell what's the status of single or split kubuntu/ubuntu packaging?
11:55 mdke not closelyt
11:55 mdke Riddell, where we left it I think. I can summarise:
11:55 mdke "Hopefully we can get dholbach to do the work"
11:55 rob1 brian added some cd burning stuff, I think the whole page needs a
face lift
11:56 Riddell no dholbach here today I see
11:56 mdke Riddell, nah he's gone to bed i think
=== rob1 adds it to things to do list
11:56 Riddell oh yes, I forget these europeans live in the future
11:56 mdke rob1, i'd like to have a good extended discussion on the desktopguide
11:56 mdke Riddell, you're not european up there huh? >_<
11:56 Riddell not in the US I'm not :)
11:57 rob1 mdke, what about it?
11:57 mdke Riddell, you moved there?
11:57 Riddell no, just this week
11:57 mdke phew
=== Riddell currently in Linus Torvald's office
=== Judax_ [n=troywill@adsl-67-67-221-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined
#ubuntu-meeting
11:57 mdke Riddell, don't forget you're european tho, even while there
11:58 mdke that's pretty cool
11:58 Riddell they haven't assimilated yet, I don't even drink this Diet Mountain
Due they feed us
11:58 rob1 ok I've got to go
rob1, those things I mailed you about: handling software
11:58 mdke installation, and structure of sections (qanda or split <para> and
qanda)
11:58 LaserJock Riddell: Mountain Dew ;-)
11:58 mdke Riddell, good man
11:59 rob1 mdke, when I get time later today I will respond to all that
11:59 mdke rob1, great, in the meantime, i'm working on the css
11:59 LaserJock did the common preface, etc. get discussed
11:59 rob1 mdke, good :)
11:59 mdke LaserJock, not yet, i'll raise it with rob later on
12:00 mdke LaserJock, best to discuss on the list first I think, so rob and
bhuvan can both comment
12:00 rob1 just quickly, I stole the preface for the faqguide because it needed
extra info/some things changed to fit in
12:00 mdke we can talk it over via email
12:00 rob1 I can't see why we can't have the one universal one though, but make
sure it is a valid xml file (with a header) so we can xinclude it
12:01 rob1 then it only has to be translated once
12:01 mdke +1
12:01 rob1 :)
12:01 rob1 ok got to go
12:01 rob1 bye
12:01 LaserJock cya
12:01 mdke bye
12:01 mdke Judax, thanks for coming, the meeting is a bit of a damp squib
12:01 mdke we're just chatting
12:01 mdke :)
12:02 Judax well, that is fun too
12:02 LaserJock so what is the purpose of using xml then if we are just going to ship
html?
12:02 Judax sounds like you are all drunk on mountain dew?
12:02 LaserJock Pepsi for me ;P
12:02 mdke LaserJock, docbook xml is more flexible for exporting to different
formats, and we can translate it, too
12:03 LaserJock mdke: but if everything is html then you don't have different
formats. HTML is harder to translate than XML?
12:03 mdke yeah
12:04 mdke LaserJock, and don't forget we might want to make pdf's, that sort of
thing
12:04 mdke but the translation is very important
12:04 LaserJock mdke: right
12:04 mdke it's crazy hard to make pot files from html
12:04 LaserJock I have nothing against XML, I was just
playing devil's advocate
12:04 mdke np
12:05 mdke that's goodMeetingLogs/DocTeam_2005-12-02 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:35:23 by localhost)