DesktopEffects-2006-9-29
06:01 DBO2 ok ladies and gents, shall we begin? despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present
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06:01 Camus_SoNiCo before we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them
06:02 DBO2 yes
06:02 stgraber There is a page in the wiki
06:02 DBO2 this channel is logged
06:02 gnomefreak this channel is logged
06:02 DBO2 i win
06:02 gnomefreak :)
06:02 Camus_SoNiCo ok, great
06:02 givre http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ ;)
=== gnomefreak is JOhn Vivirito
=== Camus_SoNiCo is Camus SoNiCo :P
06:03 DBO2 ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?
06:03 gnomefreak lol
06:03 gnomefreak yeah me
06:04 DBO2 gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...
06:04 gnomefreak is joel here?
06:04 lupine_85 me :)
06:04 stgraber me :)
06:04 Camus_SoNiCo me too, but i'm willing to develop
06:04 gnomefreak rouben here?
06:04 lupine_85 (well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)
06:04 gnomefreak henrickomma here?
06:05 DBO2 Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that
06:05 Camus_SoNiCo Ok
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06:05 gnomefreak who is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm and DBO2
06:05 DBO2 im not devel
06:05 cyberorg <- sort of
06:05 gnomefreak DBO2: your working on themes arnt you?
06:06 DBO2 but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager
06:06 gnomefreak ah ok
06:06 DBO2 iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm
06:06 gnomefreak ok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)
06:07 DBO2 lupine_85 is a big help
06:07 DBO2 hes there a lot
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06:07 lupine_85 am I?
06:07 gnomefreak we are in need of people helping in there
06:07 gnomefreak lupine_85: yes
06:07 lupine_85 cor
06:07 DBO2 lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?
06:07 gnomefreak it seems so
06:07 DBO2 gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)
06:07 DBO2 First order of business is the wiki pages
06:08 DBO2 those need an entire overhaul
06:08 DBO2 beryl 0.1 has been pre-released
06:08 DBO2 and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git
06:09 gnomefreak myself and DBO2 have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them
06:09 DBO2 I have some experience writing these walkthroughs
06:09 gnomefreak DBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?
06:09 iXce gnomefreak : official one :o)
06:09 DBO2 so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project
06:10 gnomefreak iXce: there is?
06:10 DBO2 gnomefreak, yes just today
06:10 gnomefreak ok good
06:10 lupine_85 amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up
06:10 Quinn_Storm the same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn
06:10 gnomefreak lets use that for the wikis than
06:10 DBO2 yeah
06:10 DBO2 we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz
06:11 DBO2 which will be fairly easy
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06:11 gnomefreak is this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?
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06:11 DBO2 thats the hope
06:11 iXce edgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)
06:11 DBO2 I am hoping to work the MOTU on this
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06:12 gnomefreak iXce: its pretty late for edgy
06:12 lupine_85 are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?
06:12 gnomefreak universe freeze started yesterday
06:12 DBO2 and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it
06:12 shawarma gnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.
06:12 cyberorg I guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl
06:12 Quinn_Storm edgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy
06:12 DBO2 for edgy+1 that is
06:12 DBO2 cyberorg, I agree with that
06:12 DBO2 Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to
06:13 DBO2 but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git
06:13 cyberorg makes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager
06:13 Quinn_Storm well if you guys want, we can work that in
06:13 Quinn_Storm but...it'll just be supported like any other WM is
06:13 DBO2 thats fine
06:13 Quinn_Storm unless you guys want to take a crack at it
06:14 cyberorg thats all is needed
06:14 gnomefreak so to use compiz you install beryl-manager?
06:14 cyberorg i can look into it
06:14 DBO2 gnomefreak, no its just an option
06:14 gnomefreak oh ok
06:14 DBO2 and it adds consistancy to how they are launched
06:14 gnomefreak ok that sounds good than
06:15 Quinn_Storm yeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible
06:15 DBO2 makes walkthroughs easier too
06:15 DBO2 ok so that covers with wiki and that segway
=== lupine_85 would like a "start automatically" option in beryl-manager.. . rather than adding it to sessions manually
06:15 gnomefreak Quinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?
06:15 Quinn_Storm for now
06:15 gnomefreak lupine_85: how about a login option?
06:15 Quinn_Storm wait
06:15 cyberorg lupine_85: put that on bugtracker
06:15 Quinn_Storm compiz?
06:16 Quinn_Storm I guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs
06:16 DBO2 Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?
06:16 DBO2 we can get a packager for that
06:16 Quinn_Storm well I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it
06:16 DBO2 would you be willing to add it in?
06:16 gnomefreak Quinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?
06:16 Quinn_Storm gnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself
06:17 DBO2 ok thats good
06:17 DBO2 I will begin searching for someone to do packaging
06:17 iXce reggaemanu?
06:17 DBO2 perhaps
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06:17 gnomefreak lol speaking of
06:18 DBO2 speak of the turkey =)
06:18 gnomefreak ok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both
06:19 DBO2 the repo is the same as the old compiz repo
06:19 gnomefreak that way we can build the wiki's around them
06:19 DBO2 xgl.compiz.info I believe
06:19 reggaemanu hi
06:19 Quinn_Storm well as you know we're already ready w/ beryl
06:19 Quinn_Storm I pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning
06:19 Quinn_Storm and nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs
06:19 gnomefreak Quinn_Storm: ah
06:19 iXce http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org
06:19 DBO2 do we have someone doing 64 dapper?
06:20 lupine_85 Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?
06:20 reggaemanu DBO, we should use beryl-project.org no compiz.info ;) but the repo is the same yeah
06:20 reggaemanu oops, it was for DBO2 :p
06:20 lupine_85 actually, I should point them both to the same one...
06:20 DBO2 reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC
06:20 lupine_85 that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well
06:21 DBO2 lupine_85, thats not a bad idea
06:21 lupine_85 it's running now
06:21 gnomefreak beryl = edgy and up only right?
06:21 DBO2 no
06:21 DBO2 it runs on dapper too
06:21 Quinn_Storm no it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz
06:21 gnomefreak ok
06:21 DBO2 mostly just libxcomposite
06:21 Quinn_Storm yeah
06:22 DBO2 those backports should stay in place please =)
06:22 DBO2 ok, to recap gnomefreak
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06:22 DBO2 we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:23 DBO2 we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together
06:23 DBO2 so she is free to develop
06:23 gnomefreak ok i like that
06:23 DBO2 nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy
06:23 DBO2 and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper
06:23 reggaemanu i can do it for compiz-git and beryl 32
06:23 DBO2 edgy or dapper?
06:23 reggaemanu (edgy)
06:24 gnomefreak k
06:24 DBO2 gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am
06:24 reggaemanu dapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless
06:24 gnomefreak yeah give me a sec
06:24 lupine_85 I have 32 and 64 edgy
=== Quinn_Storm pbuilders dapper too anyway
06:25 DBO2 yeah but you are stopping that =P
06:25 xopher I could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess
06:25 lupine_85 I meant for packaging official: [17:22] <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
06:25 gnomefreak DBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?
06:25 DBO2 gnomefreak, beryl edgy
06:26 gnomefreak k
06:26 lupine_85 unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.
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06:27 gnomefreak so reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?
06:27 DBO2 officially yes
06:27 DBO2 we want to replace quinn
06:28 DBO2 we can see if Amaranth wants the job
06:28 iXce ahem
06:28 DBO2 he was already packaging
06:28 reggaemanu we need someone else for dapper
06:28 DBO2 iXce, did we miss you?
06:28 iXce what's the problem with quinn doing some packages?
06:28 DBO2 iXce, she shouldnt have to
06:28 DBO2 it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere
06:28 iXce yeah
06:29 iXce that's right :)
06:29 Camus_SoNiCo let her to some magic :P
06:29 DBO2 her time is far too valuable to have her packaging
06:29 iXce and maybe should svn be less distro-specific
06:30 DBO2 thats really up to the dev team
06:30 DBO2 but you will find no qualms here
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06:30 iXce bbl
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06:30 gnomefreak ok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it.
06:30 gnomefreak and we need some more
06:31 lupine_85 Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay
06:32 lupine_85 erm, him"
06:32 stgraber I'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging
06:32 DBO2 gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info
06:32 gnomefreak info on what?
06:33 DBO2 packaging
06:33 gnomefreak noted
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06:33 gnomefreak wecome Xnix
06:33 DBO2 ok next
06:33 gnomefreak welcome even
06:33 Xnix howdy
06:33 DBO2 as far as bug reports go
06:34 DBO2 all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker
06:34 gnomefreak DBO2: got a handy link?
06:34 DBO2 bugs.beryl-project.org
=== lupine_85 bookmarks
06:35 DBO2 on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails
06:35 gnomefreak agreed
06:35 Xnix how do we get on those?
06:35 Xnix i keep up with it, but didnt know there was email
06:35 gnomefreak DBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?
06:36 Quinn_Storm we're in the process of fixing that
06:36 gnomefreak k
06:36 DBO2 gnomefreak, yes and no
06:36 gnomefreak DBO2: we can get together later about that
06:36 DBO2 gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...
06:36 reggaemanu the login still don't work
06:36 DBO2 we will have to talk on that later
06:36 gnomefreak DBO2: agreed
06:36 gnomefreak brb phone
06:37 DBO2 Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?
06:37 Quinn_Storm Generally...probably not...I hate their interface
06:37 reggaemanu anyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-
06:37 DBO2 Quinn_Storm, ok
06:37 reggaemanu gnome-session need some patch too
06:38 mjg59 reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship
06:38 DBO2 reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?
06:38 DBO2 mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue
06:38 reggaemanu mjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl
06:39 mjg59 reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi
06:39 reggaemanu and there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver
06:39 reggaemanu so you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p
06:39 mjg59 I've used it extensively with the X server we ship
06:39 DBO2 are you using xgl or aiglx?
06:39 mjg59 aiglx
06:39 mjg59 That is, the X server we ship
06:39 iXce reggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now
06:40 DBO2 iXce, ok thats fine then
06:40 DBO2 Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help
06:40 reggaemanu mjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?
06:40 reggaemanu that's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog
06:40 mjg59 reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.
06:41 Camus_SoNiCo yes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs
06:41 iXce mjg59 : we already did
06:41 reggaemanu everybody is aware of that since around 6 month...
06:41 Xnix reggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl
06:41 Xnix in Xgl
06:41 DBO2 Xnix, thats xgl
06:41 DBO2 doesnt have the issue
06:41 reggaemanu Xnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...
06:41 Xnix ahh ok
06:41 mjg59 Oh, that's interesting
06:41 DBO2 its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue
06:41 mjg59 Why don't I get compiz bugs?
06:41 reggaemanu (adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)
06:41 lupine_85 logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)
06:41 reggaemanu s/adn/and
06:42 mjg59 I used to
06:42 lupine_85 erm, but KDE
06:42 iXce but it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default
06:42 iXce and it's a gnome-session bug
06:42 reggaemanu lupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^
06:42 lupine_85 yep - noticed that after $13$10
06:42 lupine_85 ;)
06:43 DBO2 ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now
06:43 reggaemanu libwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring
=== Camus_SoNiCo wants to know de diff between Xgl and AIGLX
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06:43 DBO2 Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg
06:43 DBO2 both however provide a means to get TFP
06:44 DBO2 (amoung other things)
06:44 gnomefreak ok sorry about htat
06:44 givre mjg59: https://launchpad.net/bugs/24221 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/59244
06:44 Ubugtu Malone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]
06:44 Camus_SoNiCo DBO2, thanks
06:44 DBO2 the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo
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06:44 Camus_SoNiCo ah, great for games ;)
06:44 DBO2 and videa
06:44 DBO2 video
06:45 mjg59 givre: Thanks
06:45 Camus_SoNiCo DBO2, i should switch then :P
06:45 DBO2 Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues
06:45 stgraber If the driver can work with AIGLX ...
06:45 DBO2 guys
06:45 Camus_SoNiCo DBO2, it has issues with nvidia?
06:45 DBO2 I got to run
06:46 DBO2 Camus_SoNiCo, yes
06:46 Camus_SoNiCo ups :S
06:46 gnomefreak i have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than
06:46 DBO2 gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)
06:46 gnomefreak DBO2: where are we?
06:46 DBO2 gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl
06:47 reggaemanu the patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo
06:47 DBO2 ill be back later tonight gnomefreak
=== lupine_85 knows what he would like to see in the (any) repos... http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=46021 : kicker-compiz
06:47 gnomefreak ok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?
06:47 gnomefreak DBO2: ok go for it
06:48 gnomefreak i +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in
06:48 mjg59 Oh
06:48 mjg59 No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch
06:48 mjg59 It's mad
06:49 mjg59 There has to be a better way to fix that
06:49 reggaemanu mjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody
06:49 lupine_85 it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu
06:49 mjg59 reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.
06:49 reggaemanu mjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)
06:49 mjg59 reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...
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06:50 lupine_85 won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.2
06:50 lupine_85 it#'s 3.5.4 I think
06:50 iXce wow Matthew Garett is here :)
06:50 gnomefreak iXce: he is
06:50 reggaemanu :)
06:50 iXce that's great :)
06:51 mjg59 The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is
06:51 gnomefreak is gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?
06:51 mjg59 Yes
06:51 gnomefreak k
06:51 reggaemanu gnomefreak, yeah
06:51 reggaemanu that's the last release before it has been removed
06:52 gnomefreak would it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?
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06:53 Quinn_Storm gnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)
06:53 mjg59 As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae
06:53 iXce Quinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^
06:54 lupine_85 hehe
06:54 iXce mjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?
06:54 lupine_85 it will be if I start on it!
06:54 reggaemanu ^^
06:54 gnomefreak iXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it
06:54 mjg59 iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment
06:54 mjg59 Putting it in .gnomerc should do
06:54 iXce and if i've got no .gnomerc?
06:54 mjg59 iXce: Create one? :)
06:54 lupine_85 .bashrc? .xsession ?
06:54 mjg59 I believe it's used by default
06:54 gnomefreak compiz will have to stay around for a while anyway
06:55 iXce mjg59 : great idea :p
06:55 iXce gnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl
06:55 mjg59 In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best
06:55 iXce documentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^
06:55 Xnix iXce what do you mean?
06:55 reggaemanu so that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc
06:55 Xnix iXce ahh k
06:56 mjg59 That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle
06:56 mjg59 Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then
06:56 mjg59 Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability
06:57 gnomefreak if we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?
06:57 Quinn_Storm what he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model
06:57 iXce mjg59 : i fully agree with that :)
06:57 reggaemanu gnomefreak, that should be possible
06:58 gnomefreak reggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out
06:58 reggaemanu gnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not
06:58 gnomefreak k
06:58 reggaemanu that's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse
06:58 mjg59 So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?
06:59 mjg59 That would seem the sensible thing to do
06:59 iXce +1
06:59 gnomefreak i agree also
06:59 reggaemanu mjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that
06:59 mjg59 reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?
06:59 reggaemanu it checks for the tfp extension
06:59 reggaemanu mjg59, yeah, 2 seconds
06:59 mjg59 reggaemanu: Thanks
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06:59 mjg59 I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable
=== Camus_SoNiCo will leave soon and wants to know how to help on development
07:00 iXce that's much more sensible :)
07:00 Xnix yes
07:00 reggaemanu i don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere
07:01 gnomefreak Camus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help
07:02 Camus_SoNiCo gnomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also
07:02 gnomefreak Camus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with
07:02 gnomefreak Camus_SoNiCo: we will
07:02 iXce hmm
07:02 mjg59 Ok
07:02 mjg59 By the way:
07:02 gnomefreak Camus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up
07:02 iXce is there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?
07:03 mjg59 I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves
07:03 mjg59 But
07:03 Camus_SoNiCo gnomefreak, great then
07:03 Xnix wiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo
07:03 Xnix gnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)
07:03 mjg59 If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me
07:03 lupine_85 one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?
07:03 mjg59 Like this gnome-session issue, for example
07:03 mjg59 Oh, yeah, while I'm at it
07:03 lupine_85 e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension
07:04 reggaemanu mjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs http://www.compiz.info/.gnome-session/
07:04 Camus_SoNiCo Xnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...
07:04 Xnix yeah
07:05 mjg59 reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it
07:05 mjg59 Give me a minute and I'll test
=== Camus_SoNiCo leaves and says bye to all. Nice meeting :D
07:05 mjg59 Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?
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07:06 lupine_85 mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...
07:06 gnomefreak lupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working
07:06 iXce oh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages
07:06 reggaemanu mjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding
07:07 mjg59 Ok
07:07 mjg59 So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?
07:08 lupine_85 it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)
07:08 mjg59 If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf
07:08 Xnix yeah
07:08 iXce mjg59 : even for intel chips?
07:08 mjg59 It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that
07:08 mjg59 iXce: That's what I use
07:09 iXce oh :)
07:09 iXce no XAAOffscreenPixmap then?
07:09 reggaemanu lupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that
07:09 mjg59 iXce: That's handled magically
07:10 lupine_85 oh, right... I must be out of date ;)
07:10 iXce great :)
07:10 Xnix lupine_85 edgy?
07:10 lupine_85 yes
07:10 lupine_85 I meant in the knowledge stakes though
07:10 rodarvus XAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver
07:10 Xnix hmm strange, mine was set by default
07:10 Xnix lupine_85 ahh
07:10 lupine_85 but doesn't fglrx need it off?
07:10 lupine_85 erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course
07:10 mjg59 It's done in the X server
07:11 mjg59 Through a foul hack
07:11 reggaemanu maybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)
07:11 Xnix alright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later
07:12 reggaemanu i gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after
07:14 iXce cigarette killed everyone ^^
07:14 rodarvus mjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu8
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07:15 mjg59 rodarvus: Yeah
07:15 ThiefOfBaghdad Err.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting
07:15 rodarvus (I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)
07:15 gnomefreak @schedule
07:15 Ubugtu Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
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07:16 tuxmaniac clear
07:16 tuxmaniac bah.. terminal
07:16 tuxmaniac gnomefreak> hi. is it still on?
07:17 gnomefreak ok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are
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07:17 tuxmaniac gnomefreak> ok. good
07:17 iXce not so much notes ^^
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07:18 tuxmaniac :(
07:18 gnomefreak iXce: i have a few notes :)
07:18 iXce :)
07:18 tuxmaniac gnomefreak> one small question
07:18 gnomefreak tuxmaniac: yes?
07:18 tuxmaniac Can the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects
07:18 tuxmaniac rather than having it as ubuntu-xgl
07:18 tuxmaniac was this discussed?
07:19 tuxmaniac I mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around
07:19 tuxmaniac Just a suggstion
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07:20 gnomefreak tuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him
07:20 tuxmaniac gnomefreak> great!
07:21 iXce what's the ml?
07:21 Quinn_Storm I've gotta head out guys
07:21 tuxmaniac iXce> Mailing list
07:21 iXce i mean, where is it?
07:21 Quinn_Storm sleeptime
07:21 iXce tuxmaniac : yeah i know :)
07:21 iXce night quinn
07:21 iXce arg
07:21 tuxmaniac iXce> :P
07:21 stgraber iXce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop-effects
07:22 tuxmaniac stgraber> you are quicker than me :D
07:22 stgraber :)
07:22 iXce thanks
07:22 stgraber np
07:27 heno are we still on the agenda somewhere?
07:29 mjg59 For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now
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07:31 Laifen re
07:31 iXce hi Laifen
07:32 Laifen Hi iXce
07:32 heno mjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)
07:33 heno currently the magnifier seems fairly static
07:33 mjg59 I'm not really sure how that's meant to work
07:34 mjg59 Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing
07:34 heno as in the fuctionality or the implementation?
07:34 heno right
07:34 mjg59 I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect
07:34 heno is that who I should poke about it?
07:34 mjg59 It's worth asking him
07:35 heno anyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?
07:35 heno or anyone likely to be at Mountain View?
07:36 iXce Quinn_Storm and onestone
07:36 heno iXce: thanks I'll try them too
07:37 iXce it's about beryl, right?
07:37 heno iXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do
07:37 heno it's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people
07:38 heno Has anyone here tried gnome-mag?
07:38 heno in gnopernicus or Orca
07:38 heno You'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier
07:38 heno on performance
07:39 heno But has a few crucial features
07:39 heno see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/compiz-mag for more info
07:43 mjg59 reggaemanu: Uploaded
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07:45 reggaemanu mjg59, gnome-session patched? :)
07:45 mjg59 Yes
07:45 reggaemanu cool
07:45 givr1 mjg59: great
07:46 reggaemanu there is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p
07:46 reggaemanu ^^
07:47 mjg59 I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?
07:47 reggaemanu we have
07:47 reggaemanu there is already a patched package in xgl.compiz.info repo
07:47 reggaemanu but i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring
07:48 mjg59 reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?
07:48 mjg59 And can you point me to the bug/patch?
07:48 reggaemanu mjg59, www.compiz.info/patches/libwnck
07:48 reggaemanu and no there is definitively no problem
07:49 mjg59 reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented
07:49 reggaemanu it change nothing for non compiz users
07:49 mjg59 Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?
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07:50 reggaemanu mjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)
07:51 reggaemanu mjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity
07:51 reggaemanu window move is needed for the viewport patch
07:51 mjg59 reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?
07:51 iXce mjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/
07:52 mjg59 I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck
07:52 mjg59 We have desktops.
07:52 reggaemanu mjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)
07:52 mjg59 What's the difference between desktops and viewports?
07:52 reggaemanu a workspace can contain many viewports
07:53 mjg59 Will this ever actually happen?
07:53 mjg59 I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?
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07:54 reggaemanu compiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs
07:54 mjg59 No, that doesn't answer my question
07:54 mjg59 Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?
07:54 mjg59 (As in, more than one of each)
07:55 reggaemanu we don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace
07:55 mjg59 So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"
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07:55 mjg59 "Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users
07:56 lupine_85 the distinction is important if you run KDE :(
07:56 mjg59 Oh argh.
07:57 lupine_85 standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports
07:57 mjg59 Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.
07:57 lupine_85 sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up
07:58 mjg59 So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.
07:58 mjg59 Is that right?
07:59 reggaemanu mjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-April/000117.html
07:59 reggaemanu (those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)
07:59 mjg59 Ridiculous hatred
08:00 mjg59 What does the appearance one actually do?
08:00 mjg59 Set opacity with wnck?
08:01 mjg59 Neat toy. So not getting in :)
08:01 iXce appearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think
08:01 reggaemanu mjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
08:02 reggaemanu http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jp
08:02 reggaemanu erf
08:02 reggaemanu http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
08:02 reggaemanu _
08:03 mjg59 Ok
08:03 mjg59 I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one
08:04 mjg59 I'll see if I can sneak them in
08:05 reggaemanu there is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on bugzilla.gnome.org about these patchs but there is no reply
08:05 reggaemanu that should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)
08:05 reggaemanu everybody use it since before dapper
08:06 reggaemanu and i'm tired to re-package it everytime
08:07 reggaemanu it's not a really important patch that's true
08:07 reggaemanu but users like that :/
08:07 reggaemanu anyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later
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08:38 Xnix reggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?
08:38 mjg59 Xnix: Yes
08:39 Xnix mjg59 awesome :D
08:39 Xnix and those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet
08:40 mjg59 Not yet
08:40 Xnix alright
08:41 Xnix thanks
...MeetingLogs/DesktopEffects-2006-9-29 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:24:12 by localhost)