Ubuntu Wiki

(07:59:59 PM) itnet7: Well I guess it's that time!
(08:00:02 PM) itnet7: Show of hands??
(08:00:05 PM) ***itnet7 here!
(08:00:10 PM) ***Michelle_Qimo1 present and accounted for
(08:00:12 PM) ***chaynie here!
(08:00:15 PM) shmolf: how do you do that?
(08:00:24 PM) itnet7: slash me then text
(08:00:30 PM) chaynie: shmolf: '/me sumthin'
(08:00:34 PM) ***shmolf here
(08:00:36 PM) shmolf: cool
(08:00:38 PM) itnet7: got it
(08:00:53 PM) ***mhall119 here
(08:01:03 PM) ***willowdale_eee_ here
(08:01:16 PM) itnet7: Nice +1 welcome willowdale_eee_
(08:01:49 PM) itnet7: So with spazz135 Missing we are going to skip the 1st topic
(08:01:59 PM) itnet7: dantalizing: dantalizing are you around?
(08:02:15 PM) itnet7: sorry for being redundant :-)
(08:02:37 PM) itnet7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Meetings#Agenda
(08:02:43 PM) itnet7: Here is a link for the current agenda
(08:02:46 PM) dantalizing: i'm here
(08:02:49 PM) itnet7: for those that might need it
(08:02:56 PM) itnet7: dantalizing: we are skipping the first topci
(08:03:04 PM) itnet7: s/topci/topic
(08:03:15 PM) itnet7: So Packaging Jams??
(08:03:33 PM) shmolf: itnet7: what is that topic about?
(08:03:52 PM) itnet7: the Packaging Jams FTW! (For the win!)?
(08:04:10 PM) itnet7: shmolf: that one or the 1st topic?
(08:04:25 PM) dantalizing: right, so one of the things we talked about during uds was
(08:04:26 PM) itnet7: Here was the first topic: #
(08:04:33 PM) itnet7: spazz135 would like to see if it's possible for Ubuntu FL to help(?) with a computer build project at his school (from last agenda was not discussed)
(08:04:33 PM) shmolf: itnet7: the packaging topic
(08:04:43 PM) dantalizing: how to get more people involved in contributing
(08:04:52 PM) ***pak33m present
(08:04:57 PM) itnet7: shmolf: ^^ dantalizing's got it ^^^
(08:06:13 PM) dantalizing: we've held packaging jams in the past
(08:06:29 PM) dantalizing: wanted to see if anyone is interested in organizing a packaging jam
(08:06:34 PM) dantalizing: sorry
(08:06:40 PM) dantalizing: we've held *bug* jams in the past
(08:06:43 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: dantalizing: what would that consist of?
(08:06:54 PM) mhall119: strawberries I hope
(08:07:04 PM) ***chaynie prefers peach.
(08:07:38 PM) itnet7: Michelle_Qimo1: I think dantalizing is trying to get a poll more ore less of who would even be remotely interested in packaging, right dantalizing ?
(08:07:44 PM) dantalizing: there is a wiki page
(08:07:47 PM) dantalizing: right itnet7
(08:07:50 PM) dantalizing: one sec..
(08:07:51 PM) itnet7: I know I would dig it!!
(08:07:52 PM) ***dantalizing is looking
(08:08:33 PM) chaynie: Are we possibly looking as these packaging jams as a stepping stone for people to get further involved in ubuntu development?
(08:08:44 PM) ***chaynie would totally dig that.
(08:09:10 PM) dantalizing: chaynie: yes
(08:09:16 PM) itnet7: chaynie: yes!
(08:09:17 PM) dantalizing: but also as a standalone team sport
(08:09:18 PM) itnet7: sorry
(08:09:27 PM) itnet7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/RunningPackagingJam
(08:09:32 PM) ***pak33m +1 packaging jam
(08:09:40 PM) itnet7: is that kind of what you were looking for dantalizing ?
(08:10:29 PM) mhall119: I need to make Qimo packages, could that be part of this effort?
(08:10:39 PM) dantalizing: thx itnet7
(08:10:52 PM) dantalizing: could be anything mhall119
(08:11:00 PM) itnet7: mhall119: do you have a ppp for qimo?
(08:11:02 PM) itnet7: ppa
(08:11:04 PM) itnet7: i meant sorry
(08:11:07 PM) ***Michelle_Qimo1 doesn't know her tuckus from her elbow in programming ANYthing, but I'll be happy to help organize.
(08:11:08 PM) mhall119: nope
(08:11:08 PM) mhall119: not yet
(08:11:12 PM) mhall119: I have a launchpad page for it
(08:11:17 PM) pak33m: -mi has some good info too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/Projects
(08:11:20 PM) chaynie: I think there is a whole list of bugs in launchpad for apps that need packaging.
(08:11:29 PM) itnet7: +1 chaynie
(08:11:33 PM) itnet7: there is
(08:12:24 PM) itnet7: pak33m: very nice find
(08:12:32 PM) pak33m: should we have packaging jams in various places like we do for the release parties?
(08:13:09 PM) itnet7: I think we were kind of thinking of picking a day, and having them simultaneously, is that right dantalizing ?
(08:13:12 PM) pak33m: -mi has a good amount of time in with packaging jams and bug jams to boot
(08:13:20 PM) shmolf: could they all be on the same night?
(08:13:25 PM) chaynie: I would think a tad more centralization might make things run smoother.
(08:13:32 PM) dantalizing: i had no thoughts on the matter
(08:13:51 PM) dantalizing: was hoping someone would be interested in learning and leading the jams
(08:14:00 PM) itnet7: ah!
(08:14:03 PM) Lupine: hola
(08:14:08 PM) itnet7: Hey there Lupine
(08:14:10 PM) pak33m: you know me mr socialbug so i was thinking we could have a packaging jam and make it a social events afterwards or the like
(08:14:21 PM) itnet7: pak33m: that sounds cool
(08:14:44 PM) chaynie: dantalizing: I started dusting off my packaging skills earlier today. I know the basics, but not enough to explain it to others.
(08:14:50 PM) pak33m: you k now i could organize it for orlando
(08:14:54 PM) ***mhall119 doesn't have time to coordinate packaging jams, but would like to participate
(08:15:24 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: out of curiousity, want to link it up with the LoCo birthday party in September?
(08:15:26 PM) itnet7: Why don't wee take the time between now and next meeting to come up with some proposals on how we could do it as a team
(08:15:27 PM) chaynie: pak33m: packaging jam + Fiddler's?
(08:15:36 PM) itnet7: I was thinking that would be cool Michelle_Qimo1
(08:15:54 PM) pak33m: chaynie: yes but we prolly would need wifi and no dice at fiddlers
(08:15:57 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: we've got the space...  we're centrally located, and we're gonna be hosting everyone here anyway...
(08:16:32 PM) chaynie: pak33m: dang.
(08:16:34 PM) pak33m: lakeland might be more central to everybody
(08:16:35 PM) itnet7: Michelle_Qimo1: you guys have wireless? We can also bring a switch
(08:16:38 PM) shmolf: Michelle_Qimo1: where are you located
(08:16:40 PM) mhall119: itnet7: do we have a wiki page for that?
(08:16:46 PM) mhall119: itnet7: yes wireless
(08:16:49 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: we're in Lakeland... and yes, we've got wireless
(08:16:51 PM) itnet7: I can create one right now
(08:16:57 PM) Feravolo: Hello People, looks like we are meeting now
(08:17:02 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: we've got stuff for the little ones, as well.
(08:17:04 PM) mhall119: welcome Feravolo
(08:17:31 PM) shmolf: can a novice help in a packaging jam?
(08:17:32 PM) pak33m: mmm, cupcakes
(08:17:41 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: and a swingset
(08:17:43 PM) pak33m: shmolf: oh yeah
(08:17:43 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: :-D
(08:18:24 PM) pak33m: itnet7: dont forget the openweek logs for the packaging 101 sessions. those could be great references.
(08:19:00 PM) crashsystems: I'm late
(08:19:05 PM) itnet7: shmolf: all levels can learn packaging
(08:19:34 PM) pak33m: itnet7: i think that we should have a packaging jam 101 event ourseleves cos i dont know if the lot of us are up to speed
(08:19:40 PM) itnet7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Projects/FlocoBday09 <-- this is where the info will be, will work on it a bit later after the meeting
(08:19:44 PM) Lupine: unless your name is maddog or tweak, anything is possible
(08:19:51 PM) itnet7: ROFL Lupine
(08:19:58 PM) ***crashsystems needs to learn how to package
(08:20:10 PM) pak33m: Lupine: cough, chuck, cough
(08:20:17 PM) Lupine: :)
(08:20:36 PM) pak33m: hes gonna cough all over the packages
(08:20:37 PM) itnet7: Well if Chuck were here he could defend himself :-P
(08:20:42 PM) itnet7: Oi!
(08:20:45 PM) pak33m: oh sorry
(08:20:51 PM) Lupine: got some links for those packaging 101 sessions?
(08:20:52 PM) pak33m: poor chuck
(08:21:19 PM) pak33m: did we post this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
(08:21:28 PM) chaynie: The sooner we do the jam, the better chance some of our packages might make it into karmic, right?
(08:21:37 PM) shmolf: are we going to focus on a category of packages?
(08:21:59 PM) chaynie: or, is that not a focus at the moment?
(08:22:43 PM) pak33m: and videos https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Videos see links 1/4 way down
(08:22:43 PM) Feravolo: What packages are you working on ?
(08:22:47 PM) itnet7: I think we should look into this a little further by next meeting, but plan on trying to do Packaging Jam at the LoCo B-day
(08:23:29 PM) itnet7: Feravolo: we were really just asking who would be interested in learning more about packaging and participating in a Packaging Jam
(08:23:31 PM) pak33m: i think we should do an outline on a wiki page on what we plan to do for the packaging jam
(08:23:41 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: just let me know what y'all are going to need for packaging jam in terms of tables, etc.
(08:24:36 PM) pak33m: id be happy to start that
(08:24:45 PM) itnet7: pak33m: thanks!
(08:24:52 PM) ***pak33m is excited about a packaging jam
(08:24:52 PM) shmolf: should I graffiti a notice?
(08:24:55 PM) pak33m: jam right
(08:25:10 PM) itnet7: shmolf, that would be sweet!
(08:25:27 PM) dantalizing: shmolf rocks
(08:25:52 PM) shmolf: do we have an official location, or to be decided?\
(08:25:56 PM) itnet7: So show of hands who is really interested in Packaging
(08:26:01 PM) pak33m: itnet7 dantalizing do you both agree that it should start with a 101 session
(08:26:04 PM) itnet7: shmolf: lakeland
(08:26:06 PM) ***crashsystems is
(08:26:11 PM) ***itnet7 is interested
(08:26:15 PM) pak33m: +1
(08:26:18 PM) ***chaynie is.
(08:26:23 PM) erictee: is interested
(08:26:25 PM) dantalizing: +1
(08:26:27 PM) Lupine: +1
(08:27:05 PM) itnet7: pak33m: I do think the 101 sessions would be helpful
(08:27:08 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: us, of course
(08:27:18 PM) shmolf: This will be painted- Packaging Jam, Lakeland, Sept 9, Ubuntu-FL.org
(08:27:24 PM) itnet7: but in order for it to go even more smoothly, we should all try to check into it
(08:27:25 PM) pak33m: are we looking to do the packaging jam in conjunction with the loco bday
(08:27:38 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: shmolf: is the 9th the settled-upon date?
(08:27:39 PM) shmolf: pak33m: i believe so
(08:27:40 PM) mhall119: shmolf: just paint the ubuntu-fl.org, we can post details there
(08:27:49 PM) itnet7: Sept. 27
(08:27:51 PM) Lupine: Sept!?!?!
(08:27:53 PM) Lupine: :(
(08:27:56 PM) shmolf: good idea, in case changes
(08:28:02 PM) mhall119: it's easier to change the wordpress page than repaint the wall
(08:28:03 PM) pak33m: itnet7: maybe we could all watch the packaging pt 1 and 2 videos together
(08:28:11 PM) crashsystems: What is happening on the 9th?
(08:28:25 PM) itnet7: Maybe we can do the 101 sessions before like in July or August
(08:28:31 PM) pak33m: ok, so im not that keen on packaging 
(08:28:43 PM) shmolf: crashsystems: i thought the b-day for ubuntu
(08:28:49 PM) pak33m: itnet7: oki will add that to the outline
(08:28:49 PM) crashsystems: ok
(08:28:54 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: Sept 27th
(08:28:59 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: B-Day
(08:29:01 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: Lakeland
(08:29:02 PM) crashsystems: hah, I'll be doing a 9hr drive on the 9th
(08:29:21 PM) Lupine: I'll be doing a 12hr flight on the 10th :(
(08:29:24 PM) shmolf: oh - bring some red bull
(08:29:33 PM) crashsystems: where to Lupine?
(08:29:42 PM) Lupine: Eurotrip
(08:29:46 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: someone please clarify the calendar.
(08:30:02 PM) crashsystems: I take it "eurotrip" takes place in one or more places in Europe?
(08:30:08 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: Are we agreed upon the 9th?  Or the 27th?
(08:30:14 PM) dantalizing: dont forget Atlanta Linux Fest on 9/19
(08:30:17 PM) itnet7: and shmolf Michelle_Qimo1 ? The 27th is the LoCo's B-day
(08:30:25 PM) dantalizing: so roadtrip that weekend
(08:30:26 PM) itnet7: or anniversary of becoming official
(08:30:34 PM) Lupine: sorry to go off topic, but yes: London to start, ending in Paris on Oct10
(08:30:54 PM) shmolf: dantalizing: is there cost for linux fest?
(08:30:58 PM) itnet7: Lupine: who's covering for you?
(08:31:02 PM) itnet7: :-P
(08:31:04 PM) Lupine: lol
(08:31:06 PM) Lupine: YOU!
(08:31:21 PM) dantalizing: shmolf: if there is, its like $10
(08:31:32 PM) dantalizing: shmolf: i think thats optional too
(08:31:38 PM) pak33m: bbiab
(08:31:43 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: We'll be at the Atl Linux Fest
(08:32:05 PM) itnet7: So I will add the Anniversary/BugJam to the Main project page and link the discussion to the forums
(08:32:15 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: itnet7: Sept 27, yes?
MianoSM Michelle_Qimo1 
(08:32:28 PM) itnet7: Michelle_Qimo1: yes
(08:32:38 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: that is a Sunday
(08:32:40 PM) pak33m: Michelle_Qimo1: alf is sept 19
(08:32:42 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: good for everyone?
(08:32:44 PM) chaynie: itnet7: would it be possible to get someone who is a MOTU or somesuch to help answer questions during the jam?
(08:33:08 PM) pak33m: itnet7: maybe somebody fro the -mi team
(08:33:15 PM) itnet7: chaynie: we might be able to
(08:33:39 PM) itnet7: No one at our level should be doing packages that would really require a MOTU, but we can try
(08:33:43 PM) crashsystems: isn't dantalizing aiming to become MOTU?
(08:33:51 PM) dantalizing: crashsystems: yes
(08:33:55 PM) itnet7: crashsystems: yeah, but it doesn't happen overnight
(08:34:02 PM) crashsystems: so I've heard
(08:34:08 PM) dantalizing: it'll be next week at least
(08:34:10 PM) itnet7: for most people it's like at least a year
(08:34:18 PM) itnet7: ROFL dantalizing  :-)
(08:34:44 PM) itnet7: pak33m: is right though we might be able to get someone from MI, or DC to sit in virtually
(08:35:18 PM) ***itnet7 is going to be at ALF by hook or by crook!
(08:35:31 PM) crashsystems: that does not sound good
(08:35:34 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: itnet7: we can strap you to the roof
(08:35:47 PM) itnet7: Woohoo, better be strong roof!
(08:35:58 PM) itnet7: Just like bodysurfing!!!
(08:36:10 PM) pak33m: oh dont this www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFzPrzY2KFM is kinda old but very informative and could help people like me who would be new to packaging. its anatomy of a debian package. 
(08:36:28 PM) pak33m: hehe, i meant dont forget this
(08:36:32 PM) pak33m: video
(08:36:43 PM) itnet7: Okay, so please watch the project pages for Packaging and the Anniversary party
(08:36:57 PM) itnet7: Next up mhall119 Tampa Meetup
(08:37:00 PM) mhall119: itnet7: what's the link again?
(08:37:14 PM) itnet7: hold on one sec
(08:37:39 PM) itnet7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Projects/FlocoBday09 <-- is where the info will go
(08:37:44 PM) mhall119: Here the Tampa meetup link: http://www.meetup.com/Tampa-Linux/calendar/10321899/
(08:37:52 PM) mhall119: please register and RSVP if you plan on coming
(08:38:12 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: bagels & muffins available...  and I need to know how many to feed
(08:38:16 PM) mhall119: thanks itnet7
(08:38:49 PM) ***dantalizing wonders if he can go
(08:38:54 PM) mhall119: you can
(08:38:58 PM) mhall119: I give you permission
(08:39:05 PM) crashsystems: I was just about to say that
(08:39:22 PM) willowdale_eee_: What is the location of the tampa meetup?
(08:39:23 PM) mhall119: someone had to
(08:39:38 PM) Michelle_Qimo1: willowdale_eee_: Jimmie B Keel Branch Library
(08:40:06 PM) willowdale_eee_: thanks
(08:40:28 PM) itnet7: willowdale_eee_: hopefully we'll see you there!
(08:40:51 PM) mhall119: http://tinyurl.com/tampameetupmap
(08:40:55 PM) itnet7: So now I guess we're on the openmic
(08:41:14 PM) pak33m: check 1,2 1,2
(08:41:23 PM) pak33m: hehe
(08:41:27 PM) mhall119: never gonna give you up!
(08:41:36 PM) willowdale_eee_: I will be on vacation.  I will hope to make the next one.
(08:41:42 PM) chaynie: +1 irc rickroll
(08:41:43 PM) itnet7: Cool!
(08:42:28 PM) itnet7: Well if no one really has anything else.....
(08:42:38 PM) chaynie: itnet7: bug jam?
(08:42:49 PM) mhall119: we already covered that
(08:42:56 PM) mhall119: oh wait, that was package jam
(08:42:59 PM) chaynie: at the orlando release party, we talked about a bug jam, right?
(08:43:04 PM) itnet7: I think he's bringing up new topic
(08:43:06 PM) shmolf: ALF, are there any trip arrangments yet?
(08:43:10 PM) mhall119: too many jams to keep up with
(08:43:11 PM) itnet7: yes chaynie
(08:43:22 PM) itnet7: we did
(08:43:43 PM) dantalizing: shmolf: not yet
(08:43:58 PM) chaynie: Did any additional discuss happen? I don't remember any?
(08:44:15 PM) ***chaynie would participate in a bug jam too.
(08:44:20 PM) mhall119 left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(08:44:24 PM) itnet7: Not really, I think we were going to try and organize another one soon
(08:44:37 PM) pak33m: how about a bug jam
(08:44:50 PM) mhall119|work: pidgin fail
(08:45:36 PM) itnet7: Any ideas in mind about hosting/having a bugjam then?
(08:45:53 PM) mhall119 [n=mhall@dt180nfd.tampabay.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(08:46:05 PM) chaynie: What do we need to have one?
(08:46:23 PM) pak33m: i think like the proposed packaging jam we do do a bug jam from time to time
(08:46:29 PM) chaynie: obviously, some place with wireless.
(08:46:40 PM) itnet7: yes
(08:46:42 PM) pak33m: chaynie: sure, especially going into karmic
(08:47:05 PM) pak33m: itnet7: i can add a page for a bug jam too
(08:47:09 PM) pak33m: if you like
(08:47:16 PM) chaynie: sometime in July maybe?
(08:47:18 PM) pak33m: at least get it started
(08:47:24 PM) itnet7: +1 pak33m
(08:47:34 PM) itnet7: July sounds good to me
(08:47:44 PM) itnet7: let me look at something really quick
(08:49:06 PM) itnet7: I just can't participate the week-ending July 18-19
(08:49:25 PM) itnet7: I can participate the second week-end in July
(08:49:57 PM) itnet7: Like July 11th
(08:50:10 PM) itnet7: Lupine, still around?
(08:50:16 PM) Lupine: yup
(08:50:38 PM) pak33m: itnet7: i will make it open for  july but not the end of july
(08:50:50 PM) itnet7: cool pak33m
(08:50:55 PM) Lupine: any weekend in July looks good
(08:51:16 PM) chaynie: I've got a wedding july 11th, so that's no good for me either.
(08:51:17 PM) pak33m: itnet7: do you want to talk about spreadubuntu or save it for another time
(08:51:26 PM) itnet7: Lupine: do you think we can work on a video that we can present and possibly share with SpreadUbuntu on basic bug triaging similar to Miami?
(08:51:37 PM) pak33m: chaynie: cant you participate while at the wedding
(08:51:49 PM) dantalizing: chaynie is not even trying
(08:51:54 PM) Lupine: yeah sounds good
(08:52:01 PM) chaynie: pak33m: in theory yes, but my wireless card sucks. :(
(08:52:37 PM) pak33m: chaynie: youre gonna have to work on your telepathy skills
(08:52:48 PM) shmolf: find a psychic
(08:52:59 PM) chaynie: I couldn't even connect at the Panera, so trying on a beach in St. Augustine is doomed to fail.
(08:53:03 PM) crashsystems: sudo apt-get install telepathy
(08:53:27 PM) dantalizing: mmm....telepathy
(08:53:27 PM) pak33m: crashsystems: hehe, i tired that today and got no nicklist in empathy
(08:53:34 PM) itnet7: We can do it on the 12th
(08:53:39 PM) crashsystems: I'd use empathy if it had OTR
(08:54:00 PM) crashsystems: 12th of?
(08:54:04 PM) itnet7: July
(08:54:18 PM) itnet7: or anytime in August
(08:54:18 PM) pak33m: +1
(08:54:18 PM) mhall119: crashsystems: so write an OTR plugin for it
(08:54:28 PM) itnet7: mhall119: that is what I was going to say
(08:54:30 PM) itnet7: :-P
(08:54:37 PM) crashsystems: mhall119 it does not have a plugin architecture.
(08:54:39 PM) pak33m: itnet7: i can keep it open for august or we could have one in august too
(08:54:50 PM) mhall119: crashsystems: seriously?
(08:54:53 PM) pak33m: itnet7: unless you dont want to see me that much
(08:54:53 PM) crashsystems: yep
(08:55:07 PM) mhall119: and they want to replace Pidgin with that?
(08:55:11 PM) itnet7: pak33m: I miss you, don't tell anyone
(08:55:12 PM) itnet7: oops
(08:55:15 PM) crashsystems: and the empathy team is quite against implementing OTR, as they think OTR is not a good design
(08:55:36 PM) crashsystems: Empathy is really quite nice, minus OTR
(08:55:48 PM) crashsystems: lack of OTR *
(08:55:51 PM) itnet7: and minus it's handling of certificates
(08:56:05 PM) mhall119: does it at least use gnupg to provide encrypted chat?
(08:56:24 PM) pak33m: can we talk about the default media player for karmic. hehe,no
(08:56:33 PM) crashsystems: Banshee FTW!
(08:56:40 PM) mhall119: trolled
(08:56:48 PM) crashsystems: :D
(08:56:52 PM) pak33m: i knew that would happen
(08:57:16 PM) crashsystems: I don't know if it has GPG support, but GPG does not give plausible denyability.
(08:58:17 PM) mhall119: I don't care about that
(08:58:34 PM) pak33m: im going a goal to try to make more contributons to exaile cos you know im an exaile fanboy and well it would be a great default media player. even though rhythmbox is rockin.
(08:58:37 PM) mhall119: just would like for the communications stream to be encrypted
(08:58:49 PM) chaynie: pak33m: exaile FTW.
(08:58:49 PM) pak33m: itnet7: meeting over?
(08:58:57 PM) itnet7: Yes pak33m pretty much!