Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2005-12-21

2005-12-21

Meeting

=== 01:00 Yagisan 01:00 lucasvo 01:00 flint 01:01 lucasvo 01:01 lucasvo 01:02 kjcole 01:02 JaneW 01:03 flint 01:03 kjcole 01:03 JaneW 01:03 flint 01:03 Forth 01:03 ogra 01:03 ogra 01:04 flint 01:04 JaneW 01:04 kjcole 01:05 flint 01:05 JaneW 01:05 JaneW 01:05 JaneW 01:05 kjcole 01:05 flint 01:05 ogra === 01:05 ogra 01:06 ogra 01:06 ogra 01:06 kjcole 01:06 ogra 01:06 kjcole 01:06 flint 01:07 JaneW 01:07 jelkner 01:07 Yagisan 01:07 JaneW === 01:07 jelkner 01:07 kjcole 01:07 ogra 01:08 Yagisan 01:08 JaneW 01:08 ogra 01:08 JaneW 01:08 ogra 01:08 ogra 01:08 ogra === 01:08 JaneW 01:09 Yagisan === 01:09 JaneW 01:09 JaneW 01:09 ogra 01:09 JaneW === 01:09 ogra 01:10 Yagisan === 01:10 flint 01:11 ogra 01:11 Yagisan 01:11 Yagisan 01:11 ogra 01:11 flint 01:11 lucasvo 01:11 ogra 01:12 flint 01:12 ogra 01:13 flint 01:13 ogra 01:13 Yagisan 01:13 ogra 01:13 Yagisan 01:13 ogra 01:14 flint 01:14 Yagisan 01:14 kjcole 01:15 Yagisan 01:15 flint 01:17 jelkner 01:17 jelkner 01:18 jelkner 01:18 ogra 01:18 ogra 01:19 JaneW 01:19 JaneW 01:19 ogra 01:19 JaneW 01:19 ogra 01:19 JaneW 01:19 lucasvo === 01:19 ogra 01:19 JaneW 01:19 JaneW 01:20 ogra 01:20 JaneW 01:20 JaneW 01:20 Yagisan 01:20 ogra 01:20 JaneW 01:20 JaneW 01:20 lucasvo 01:20 ogra 01:21 flint 01:21 Yagisan 01:21 JaneW 01:21 Yagisan 01:21 JaneW 01:21 flint 01:22 Yagisan 01:22 ogra 01:22 ogra 01:23 ogra 01:23 jelkner 01:24 Yagisan 01:24 jelkner 01:24 ogra 01:24 flint 01:25 jelkner 01:25 ogra 01:25 flint 01:26 JaneW 01:26 JaneW 01:26 flint 01:27 flint 01:27 flint 01:27 kjcole 01:28 jelkner 01:28 kjcole 01:28 jelkner 01:29 irvin 01:29 jelkner 01:29 ogra 01:29 jelkner === 01:29 ogra 01:30 jelkner 01:30 ogra 01:30 jelkner 01:30 jelkner 01:30 ogra 01:30 jelkner 01:30 flint 01:30 ogra 01:30 irvin 01:30 jelkner 01:30 ogra 01:30 lucasvo 01:30 flint 01:31 jelkner 01:31 ogra 01:31 kjcole 01:31 jelkner 01:31 jelkner 01:31 kjcole 01:31 ogra 01:31 flint 01:31 jelkner 01:31 jelkner 01:32 flint 01:33 jelkner 01:33 jelkner 01:33 JaneW 01:33 jelkner 01:33 JaneW 01:33 ogra 01:33 JaneW 01:33 jelkner 01:33 jelkner 01:34 kjcole 01:34 ogra 01:34 jelkner 01:35 jelkner 01:35 lucasvo 01:35 kjcole 01:36 lucasvo 01:36 lucasvo 01:36 jelkner 01:36 jelkner 01:36 flint 01:36 ogra 01:36 ogra 01:36 lucasvo 01:37 flint 01:37 kjcole 01:38 ogra 01:38 lucasvo 01:38 ogra 01:39 lucasvo 01:40 flint 01:42 jelkner 01:42 lucasvo 01:42 jelkner 01:43 kjcole 01:43 jelkner 01:43 jelkner 01:43 jelkner 01:43 jelkner 01:43 kjcole 01:43 flint 01:44 jelkner 01:44 jelkner === 01:44 lucasvo 01:44 jelkner 01:44 jelkner 01:44 flint 01:44 jelkner 01:44 kjcole 01:45 lucasvo 01:45 kjcole 01:45 flint 01:45 lucasvo 01:46 jelkner 01:46 jelkner 01:46 jelkner 01:46 irvin 01:46 ogra 01:46 jelkner 01:46 kjcole === 01:46 kjcole 01:46 flint 01:47 JaneW 01:47 jelkner 01:47 lucasvo 01:47 jelkner 01:47 lucasvo 01:47 jelkner 01:47 jelkner 01:47 jelkner 01:47 jelkner 01:48 jelkner 01:48 jelkner 01:48 kjcole 01:48 ogra 01:49 jelkner 01:49 irvin 01:50 JaneW 01:50 kjcole 01:50 ogra 01:50 jelkner 01:50 jelkner 01:51 jelkner 01:51 flint 01:51 kjcole 01:51 ogra 01:51 jelkner 01:51 jelkner 01:51 lucasvo 01:51 ogra 01:51 flint 01:52 ogra 01:52 jelkner 01:52 ogra 01:52 jelkner 01:52 kjcole 01:53 lucasvo 01:53 jelkner 01:53 jelkner 01:53 jelkner 01:53 ogra 01:53 jelkner 01:53 jelkner 01:53 flint 01:53 ogra 01:54 kjcole 01:54 ogra 01:54 kjcole 01:54 ogra 01:55 lucasvo 01:55 flint 01:55 jelkner 01:55 jelkner 01:55 ogra 01:55 jelkner 01:56 jelkner 01:56 ogra 01:56 jelkner 01:56 kjcole 01:57 lucasvo 01:57 jelkner 01:57 jelkner 01:57 ogra 01:57 lucasvo 01:57 ogra 01:57 jelkner 01:58 jelkner 01:58 ogra 01:58 jelkner 01:58 ogra 01:58 ogra 01:58 flint 01:59 jelkner 01:59 kjcole 01:59 ogra 01:59 flint 01:59 kjcole 01:59 ogra 02:00 ogra 02:00 flint 02:00 lucasvo 02:00 ogra 02:00 ogra 02:00 flint 02:00 ogra 02:01 ogra 02:01 JaneW 02:01 jelkner 02:01 JaneW 02:01 lucasvo 02:01 ogra 02:01 flint 02:01 jelkner 02:01 JaneW 02:01 lucasvo 02:01 ogra 02:01 jelkner 02:01 lucasvo 02:01 flint 02:01 jelkner 02:01 JaneW 02:01 flint 02:01 lucasvo 02:02 JaneW 02:02 ogra 02:02 flint 02:02 lucasvo 02:02 JaneW 02:02 ogra 02:02 JaneW 02:03 kjcole 02:03 JaneW 02:03 flint 02:03 lucasvo 02:03 JaneW 02:03 JaneW 02:03 lucasvo 02:04 lucasvo 02:04 kjcole 02:04 JaneW 02:04 flint 02:04 irvin 02:04 JaneW 02:04 ogra 02:04 Yagisan 02:05 JaneW 02:05 ogra 02:05 JaneW 02:05 ogra 02:06 flint 02:06 kjcole 02:06 flint 02:06 lucasvo 02:07 lucasvo 02:07 kjcole 02:07 ogra 02:07 JaneW

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This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

December 21, 2005 class="anchor" id="line-7">

12:59 kjcole      Hiya all... flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting G'day kjcole hi kjcole morning kevin!! kjcole: I managed to checkout the cookbook kjcole: is there any roadmap/ todo list? Morning, Mr. Flint, Did you get that grant notification from Community of Science? hi all kjcole, did i mention how much it sucks to be old enough to be called Mr. Flint?  BTW what grant notification? Lucasvo, Not yet, but it sounds like a good idea.  We're basically making a pass thru to eliminate unwanted stuff first then a second pass to figure out what to add. sorry about missing last week, things have been hectic and I felt really ill  etc morning jane how you feel? hi Mr. Flint yeah, sorry for not putting up the notes yet ... i lag a bit with my paperwork Forth, that was harsh, try flint...morning ollie! flint: much better today, but ready for a VAC! Flint, I sent something your way last saturday or sunday: someone's offering money for "computers and software that will close the digital divide in education..." JaneW, it is a balmy -3 F here in Montpelier, Vermont... sucks2Bme, peak of summer holidays here and I still working flint: luverly! ok let's hit it? Flint, brisk.. kjcole, i will check, please send again... yup jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.194.142] has joined #ubuntu-meeting my update is quick today .... most of my worktime was spent for http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html last week but i started to work on the low memory spec (which includes the fix for powerpc installs to finally work) flint, it's one of those things that only allows you to send form mail, so it may not look like it's from me, but trust it.  Community of Science. thats al from the tech side .... And, g'morning JaneW. kjcole, gotcha... hi kjcole kjcole: did we do documentation report yet? ogra: so currently it still uses the same amount of ram as breezys ? oli: wow that was quick Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting quick is good jelkner, no. Yagisan, yup ogra: so still a tight fit on 64mb boxes ooh I am lagging on the list mails we have a flight 2? my next upload will include the change to drop the linux-restricted-modules package from the thin client ogra: and LiveCD? which will gain about 10-15 MB JaneW, is fine see the announceent :) JaneW is trying to speed read YAY other then myself and ogra, has anyone tested multi-arch out ? JaneW hugs ogra you been stealthy ;) well done ! i was busy :) mdz will be impressed (I hope) lucasvo_ [n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Yagisan, i tested it several times ... but i'd like to enhance it for ppc on amd64/i386, any input welcome ogra: I'm still think about using qemu for that lucasvo_ is now known as lucasvo ogra, damn...I expect to begin testing here and I will rely on this page from you. flint, jelkner has alreaedy beaten you :) got my first bug reports ;) ogra: first I'll fix my fstab issues, send patch, then investigate how to get that going. should qemu work ogra: I'll need some people with real powerpc boxes to test the clients i'm not sure, i have no quemu experience at all... i use real HW ogra, ollie, elkner is a whiner, of course he would file the first bugs... Yagisan: I have a iBook flint, he didnt file ;) he reported live :) ogra, thus proving my point :^) heh Yagisan, will a mac do as a power pc platform? yup it should its the only thing i'll test here ... first I need the unpack to go succesfully unless someone donates me a netvista thin client :) A lot of my stuff is still in storage, but I may have an angle here...Elkner what about Phil? I had that partially working around the time of breezys release, but I haven't picked it up since then Flint, Shapiro?  Or another Phil? the issue I had was that qemu would run simple stuff like ls, dmesg but it died on bash, and the install failed (amd64 host) kjcole, yes indeed Phil Shapiro.  He has truckloads of G3's and maybe a few G5's yes he does and i'm sure he would like to help i only have about 12 minutes before students arrive, are we going to talk about docs? for now the ltsp install on ppc is still borked ... so yu guys have some time until my next upload arrives ;) i'm done as i said ... are we done with tech stuff? snap :) good progress mostly CD testing ... it eats a lot of time ... ogra: so is everything looking like smooth sailing to dapper? Yagisan: you are interested in testing ppc clients? FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@67.62.254.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting JaneW, yup ogra: excellent ogra: and local devices, think there's a chance it will get sorted? JaneW, and i even got granted the right to upload myself while mdz is away ;) ogra: cool, sneak stuff through... ;) I never said that! lucasvo: yes - but I'm in Sydney there is still a meeting pending... i'll have to wait for mdz, but i'll start testing nod ok documentation -> Yagisan: ssh isn't enough? sound is also awaiting his approval JaneW, wait a minute i have to pick at a very important scab... lucasvo: I'd need a loaner for some testing flint: you are incorigable! lucasvo: anyway - I'll let you know if/when I have something ready to test (and I can't spell) ogra, elkner says it will not be very dapper without local storage... flint: but ducks only have a limited amount of local storage anyway ... flint, the spec was always low/mid prio ... i have to care for the high priority stuff first ... and for the blocker bugs ... flint: you were not available ogra: priority 1 - does it start, priority 2 - no BSOD :) limited is ok, but we *some* flint, the other specs are likely to be implemented before edn of the year (at least locally) so i can spend the rest of my time on local devices ... Yagisan, what is this a "flap" about storage? ogra: great news! but still n promises ... that would be sweet ollie! i would love to help... flint: what about the scab...? flint is Gold Memeber! that is the itch! I would not want a duck with an itch... on to the docs... Meanwhile... Docs: We are getting more and more requests from folks wanting to help with the cookbook... which, while appreciated, I'm not sure we're ready for.  One thing is that I think some are still thinking "wiki" while we're thinking "PDF" and "HTML". besides, too many cooks spoil the cookbook lucasvo asked a few minutes ago if we had a roadmap...  I guess the tuxlab table of contents is the closest approximation of a roadmap, such as it is. things work well with a small group of folks who can work closely together the cookbook will be dapper-specific or will it include stuff from breezy? but to maintain a consistent style and a well organized book, you really need just a few people it will be dapper and + ogra: we will need your help Kmirno_AWAY is now known as Mirno jelkner, for ? we have what was a chapter (which we are making an appendix) which describes the boot process in low level detail tech stuff ? yup it will be a great appendix fine with me the current version describes ltsp I will make myself available for bad prose and puns.... so we have a 20 page cookbook and a 100 page appendix ? haha and since edubuntu is different, kevin and i will need your help :) a list of who is working on what would be gooda as well. and 300 pages of bug reports... kevin said he would get in touch with you about that the basics of the bootprocess are the same ... ogra, We're now in chapter 6, and an appendix.  The LTSP description in tuxLab goes into deep detail, which I gather, is wong. you'll see when we send you the draft a lot is different jelkner, my bad. yup, i'll check out bzr ... actually, are there any diagrams? no we could use some I love diagrams, elkner knows from his system descriptions how much I like diagrams. step on is to get the current edited version of the appendix to ogra (kjcole will do that) jelkner: it makes sense to keep the group containable and functional then, if you can manage the load... then after ogra fixes it, we can talk to flint about adding a diagram diagrams are great, the more the better IMO yup makes it more interesting and accessable JaneW: yes, jane that is the only way to do it ogra, expect that from me a bit later today. yup since it is free content, folks can make whatever changes they want after we have a go at it i guess that's it for the book I would like to have some list of who is doing what for the cookbook. The face-to-face meetings really help.  (As nice as IRC and gobby are, they're no substitute for simultaneously reading text aloud.) Because I don't have a clue who is doing what. kjcole: where do you live :D luscasva: kevin and i are editing the first draft that's about it kjcole, elkner are skype-ing at this meeting.  I highly recommend this communication channel to all... lucasvo, > than 8h away from you (with a plane ;) ) skype doesn't work on my box lucasvo, it took a lot of doing to get skype working under breezy... lucasvo, just ignore flint. ;-) complain at skype, its closed source stuff, we cant do much about it ... yeah, thats why we should use gnome-meeting yup but that doesn't work on my machine, because I have blocked UDP lucasvo, indeed, that is why stoom or gizmo might be a better fit.  funcitonally it is really quite nice.. lucasvo: are you trying to get involved in the book? jelkner: yes ok, here is what we should do: lucasvo, essentially, we're going through the tuxLab Cookbook, in order.  Much of it is well-written, and just has parts which need to be eliminated.   And now we're finally getting into specific differences like the LTSP boot process, which need to be replaced. kevin and i are meeting next on jan 7 (sunday ) could you join us remotely then? 10 am EST Eastern Standard (UTC - 5:00) what a civilized hour to meet :^) send us your email jeff@elkner.net and we will get you the latest source before then kjcole is kjcole@gri.gallaudet.edu jelkner: 5 am in the morning? well, we start then and work until about 4 pm lucasvo, I take it you are in "la bella italia"? so you could join us later luasvo: EST = UTC -5:00 flint: no, switzerlad lucasvo, So, 10:00 EST... You do the math for where you are. lucasvo, a thousand pardons... it is 4 in the morning for me anyway, our next work session is jan 7 we *start* at 4 and work until 10 your time kjcole, jelkner can i join in too? lucasvo, 5:00 UTC is 6am in europe what is the earliest you can jolin us? Lucasvo: That can't be right...  10:00 EST should be 3:00 PM EST, if I'm not mistaken. Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting s /3:00 EST/ 3:00 UTC/ lucasvo, these people are like dairy farmers and the documentation is like a milk cow :^) Our next meeting is Jan 11 irvin: send me an email: jeff@elkner.net jelkner: should I join the team? so i can plan with you how to get something going jelkner: launchpad.com/people/lucasvo sure kevin set that up i don't know concretely what it means yet kevin? s/jan 11/jan 7 oops jelkner, not a whole lot.  ;-)  It's currently just a list of interested parties. JaneW, why dont we do one on jan 4th ? ok, so folks can join it if they wish, but send me an email if you want to be included in the planning thanks jelkner ogra: you can, but I will be on leave (and camping, so not available at all) Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you, which is more like a way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the launchpad team. there were several -fr people asking for a possibility to translate, since they are subscribed to the ML, could you CC the ml for planning ? ok, that about does it ogra: ok, another issue not a good idea yet kjcole, for instance lucasvo, kevin would never approve me... :^( jelkner, launchpad, bzr, web space? jelkner, why ? they would be translating a *very* moving target think how much work that would be kjcole: I don't understand what you want to say as early as possible  i would think kjcole, how is your experience with bzr? jelkner, my prob is that they start to develop totally independent documentation that i cant ever check (my french sucks) ogra: yes, but that is the only way that makes sense so knowing they use our upstream source will give some safety about the correctnees of the content the book is a global thing lucasvo, regarding what? 13:50 < kjcole> Lucasvo, the only real difference is that I have to "approve" you, which is more like a way for me to be alerted when people add their names in the launchpad team. when editing chapter x, we find that a change in chapter x - 5 will help clarify things so the whole book is constantly changing if they start translating now then they have to change it as well they would have to do it all again each week a *lot* of work ogra, the only thing to rely on is the outline/TOC... and even that remains in flux my concern is that they already do stuff and that some of it is really wrong ... Lucasvo, you asked if you should "join the team".  I've set up a team on Launchpad, but it is restricted so that I get e-mail when someone adds themselves to the team.  Their membership waits until I approve it. additionally they developed a broken liveCD and people come to us, asking about fixes for example ... Lucasvo, Unless it's flint, I approve them. i want coordination, as much as possible ... kjcole: aha, yes kjcole, power corrupts... ogra: i can coordinate the english version of the book i would encourgage translators to wait jelkner, we need to coordinate beyond language borders, thats why i ask you to make the coordination public to all ... unless you have enough of a team for an independent effort in another language ogra: keep in mind, you can't write a book with dozens of contributors ...thats why i ask to CC the mailing lis in your coordination discussions it won't work Ogra, most of what we're doing so far isn't very technical, and is general enough to still be right: "What is an Operating System?"  "What is a Network"  "Why is Open Source a 'good thing'?" launchpad.net - not found... it would be hugely helpful if we could get our work into bzr then folks could just grab it and look at it jelkner, i just want you to make it public, i didnt say "acceppt 100 contributors" jelkner: what's the bzr kjcole has? they should just know whats going on it is on a local machine he set up it would be much better to have it on launchpad it will, if launchpad is ready agian, we are stuck trying to learn to setup bzr, instead of focusing on writing the book the bzr archive is fine ... whats the prob ? kevin, where is version control? we can't commit lucasvo, he meant launchpad, not bzr. you dont commit on the server .... sounds like guy thing... ogra, he meant push. you make a local branch and commit there ... and i still would suggest to leave the merging in one hand ... dont do all pushes to one source ... we have a big bzr understanding problem can you reach launchpad? have one guy managing the merges of the branches how i work with mdz: next week documentation time is about using bzr ok?  jane back me up! he has the master branch online .... i pull it locally, make my changes and commit .... flint: knock yourself out ok all, i need to go on your own jelkner: I will contact you.. then i push it up to my own server ... kevin can you confirm that you have the master branch online students arriving... no meeting next week :P jelkner: are you in the launchpad team? and he does the merging great jelkner: bye JaneW, yea I have done that before... bye the next meeting is in 3 weeks time, and an unofficial one in 2 weeks ok then week after all about bzr... JaneW: what time? I am off for 2 weeks from friday WOOHOO lucasvo, as usual JaneW, we need meeting time about use of bzr to go forward. ah, ok first real leave since April 2004, cept for a long week end or 2 flint, yes, but you can come to #edubuntu and we do it there ... informal ... flint: you are welcome to have one anytime, even next week or the week after flint, the master branch (root?) is on my machine.  Launchpad points to it.  However, it was intended to be there til moved to somewhere more official like Launchpad itself.  (Ogra tells me the launchpad super-mirror isn't ready for prime-time yet.) lucasvo: always the same time 12:00 UTC fine we will be there during the meeting on Sunday... will you be fresh and rested? JaneW: ok, even if it is unofficial sunday lucasvo: well I won;t be here, I guess those that are around will meet the normal time? ah, ok I can't reach launchpad flint, one reason push/merge/whatever doesn't fly yet is because I didn't want to open up my little machine for "write access".  But pull works... I seriously need some afk time and will even shut*my*laptop*down *gaspe*! ogra, you likely need to teach kevin and kevin can then torture me with his superior knowledge... just leave the schedule on the fridge :) it is on the fridge flint, in short its working how i described above ... JaneW: you turn off you laptop ????? Yagisan: no but on Friday I am going to flint, everybody puts his branch online and doe his commits there... one merge master reviews and merges the work of the others in the main branch we'll how see how long I last before turning it on again ;) flint, no magic involved ogra, lemme attack this issue.   I see a problem to work on. lucasvo, I'm thinking you've got network problems: First the bzr branch giving you troubles now launchpad.net... elkner ment Sunday January 8th note the date!!! kjcole: atm I am in school with completely other net ah, maybe it is because I don't have https proxy lucasvo, well that blows that theory.  Wrong me. flint, if the supermirror exists, you'll have your branch attached to your account on launchpad and the merge master will be able to merge stuff *on* launchpad ok time is def up, let's move to #edubuntu?

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2005-12-21