Meeting started by balloons at 14:00:58 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-20-14.00.log.html .

Meeting summary

• Previous Actions
• Ubuntu Updates
• Ubuntu Flavor Updates
• Other Topics

Meeting ended at 14:52:58 UTC.

Votes

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• (none)

People present (lines said)

• balloons (70)
• astraljava (37)
• hggdh (18)
• phillw (10)
• meetingology (3)
• highvoltage (3)
• pitti (1)

Full Log

• 14:00:58 <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA

  14:00:58 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 20 14:00:58 2012 UTC. The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

  14:00:58 <meetingology>

  14:00:58 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

  14:01:05 <phillw> o/

  14:01:06 <balloons> Hello everyone 14:01:14 * pitti waves hello 14:01:53 * hggdh waves discreetly

  14:02:08 <balloons> hggdh,

  14:02:26 <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions

  14:03:10 <balloons> I don't believe we had any.. just checking to confirm

  14:03:16 <balloons> Nope, k

  14:03:22 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates

  14:03:38 <balloons> hggdh, care to talk a bit about ubuntu?

  14:03:44 <hggdh> heh

  14:04:07 <hggdh> We are going on nicely. There was a bit of a scare yesterday, with bug... 14:04:10 * hggdh goes check

  14:05:02 <hggdh> bah, cannot find it. But it was a problem with dpkg amd multiarch

  14:05:34 <hggdh> that caused dpkg to completely fail to work. Corrected yesterday, and a new dpkg is now available

  14:06:19 <hggdh> apart from that, it is business as usual. We have pretty much been able to provide working images continuously this cycle

  14:06:28 <hggdh> well, almost continuously

  14:06:30 <hggdh> ..

  14:07:07 <balloons>

  14:07:17 <balloons> I saw gema talk a bit about UTAH

  14:07:33 <balloons> what's going on now with that? Is there a meeting place for people interested now?

  14:08:00 <hggdh> there is a mailing list for -- ubuntu-utah-dev@lists.ubuntu.com

  14:08:26 <hggdh> anyone interested can subscribe, and we expect it to be low-volume

  14:08:55 <hggdh> we do not have meetings or presentations scheduled for UTAH right now

  14:09:12 <hggdh> but we can set one if there is a need

  14:09:29 <balloons> are you able to demo it hggdh ?

  14:09:57 <hggdh> no, I am not -- I am just now getting to use it. Sorry

  14:09:59 <hggdh> but

  14:10:23 <hggdh> UTAH is currently limited to dealing with VMs (specifically libvirtd)

  14:10:40 <hggdh> support for bare-metal installation and testing will come in a few weeks

  14:11:10 <balloons> thanks hggdh

  14:11:13 <hggdh> the whole idea of UTAH is to provide a common base for test submission and control (and, up to a point, reporting)

  14:11:33 <balloons> questions?

  14:12:52 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates

  14:13:09 <balloons> phillw, care to start us off?

  14:13:36 <phillw> all quiet on lubuntu, just one bug that seems possibly hardware related.

  14:14:07 <phillw> they're finalising off the applications that will be included by default

  14:14:22 <balloons> any big changeups?

  14:14:50 <phillw> nothing as yet, the application changes are planned after A2, afaik

  14:15:45 <phillw> they're testing the applications before inclusion, so hopefully there will be very little impact on the iso (famous last words!).

  14:16:09 <phillw> that's all from me

  14:16:20 <balloons> hehe!

  14:16:32 <balloons> alright, let's see.. how about xubuntu?

  14:16:41 <astraljava> Yes, hi.

  14:16:49 <balloons> howdy astraljava

  14:17:09 <astraljava> Well, we have finally had some testing, and the tests have gone pretty nicely, a few bugs of course.

  14:17:34 <astraljava> We're having the team meeting right after this one, and I want to discuss our participation on Alpha-2 milestone.

  14:17:47 <astraljava> My personal opinion is that we should do it, but let's see.

  14:18:08 <astraljava> I just started to gather data through the xml-rpc interface, but haven't really made it there, yet.

  14:18:23 <astraljava> But it'll be of more value during the milestones, anyway.

  14:18:42 <astraljava> We've also started to enhance our testcases.

  14:19:10 <astraljava> During one of those discussions, some confusion arose about the categorization of bugs.

  14:19:24 <astraljava> But we should talk about them later this meeting.

  14:20:00 <astraljava> That's pretty much it for Xubuntu. No questions? Moving on. *smirk*

  14:20:03 <astraljava> ..

  14:20:08 <balloons> astraljava, sounds good, we'll discuss the bug issue in a moment

  14:20:21 <balloons> alright, kubuntu?

  14:22:31 <balloons> mythbuntu?

  14:24:03 <balloons> edubuntu?

  14:24:35 <balloons> ubuntu studio?

  14:24:45 <astraljava> Still here.

  14:24:57 <balloons> yes, take two astraljava

  14:25:09 <highvoltage> sorry what meeting is this again?

  14:25:21 <balloons> hey highvoltage

  14:25:24 <astraljava> Studio is a bit of a poor puppy here. We haven't had a working image since $deity_remembers_when.

  14:25:25 <highvoltage> heya balloons

  14:25:40 <balloons> this is the qa community meeting

  14:25:49 <highvoltage> ah ok

  14:26:12 <astraljava> Contributions to the flavor has been to a minimum. We have left packages hanging in the FTBFS state for way too long.

  14:26:40 <balloons> k.. so plans for alpha 2?

  14:26:45 <balloons> going to skip?

  14:26:46 <astraljava> Also there were some changes in the infrastructure (xfce4), which we just neglected to react to.

  14:27:11 <astraljava> My feeling is yes, that'll be likely.

  14:27:42 <astraljava> Unless something miraculous happens during the few upcoming days, definitely.

  14:28:12 <astraljava> Things are picking up, though, so still very much looking for the Beta milestones.

  14:28:31 <astraljava> ..

  14:28:54 <astraljava> looking forward*

  14:29:24 <balloons> sounds good

  14:29:33 <balloons> alright any last questions before we move on?

  14:29:46 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other Topics

  14:30:17 <balloons> So, I have an update to talk a little about, but we'll start with your bugs questions astraljava

  14:30:43 <astraljava> Alright, so we chatted about the critical bugs vs. just bugs on the tracker.

  14:31:18 <astraljava> We did agree that whenever you stumble upon a bug that is not highly relevant to the testcase, you can mark the test as passed, but mention the bug number.

  14:31:48 <astraljava> But where we didn't come to a conclusion is, and my question is: What exactly is a critical bug?

  14:31:56 <astraljava> Failing to install? Sure.

  14:32:14 <astraljava> But other parts? What's your take on it over at the vanilla side?

  14:32:35 <balloons> we just had this same discussion

  14:32:48 <balloons> I was hoping to remove the concept of "critical bugs" and go with just bugs

  14:33:26 <balloons> however, as it stands the definition is something that prevents the testcase from passing

  14:33:37 <balloons> in other words, in the testcase failed, you should file a critical bug

  14:33:52 <balloons> if it didn't fail any bugs you found are just bugs

  14:34:08 <astraljava> Yeah, but some parties were of the opinion that only the uninstallability marks the test as failed.

  14:34:18 <astraljava> But I was thinking more of the releasability.

  14:34:19 <balloons> if it failed, and you found other bugs which didn't neccessary lead to it failing somehow, you could also have just bugs on a normal entry

  14:34:36 <balloons> well, testcases are diverse

  14:35:01 <balloons> so it may very well install but fail the arch check or something

  14:35:10 <balloons> by the current definition, it would still be crtiical

  14:35:31 <balloons> I can't remember where we left the discussion ATM

  14:35:51 <astraljava> Right, so if you may, I'd present the exact case that lead us bickering; our case wants to check for possible USB sticks, and mounting them.

  14:35:52 <balloons> it's probably worth continuing on the mailing list / opening a bug against the ubuntu qa website

  14:36:33 <astraljava> Now I agree that the case should be worded better. But what good is mounting a stick, if you cannot browse it? That's what happened with the tester. dmesg correctly identified the stick, but thunar couldn't browse it.

  14:37:00 <astraljava> Nevermind the beef of the case here, but I would want the guidelines clear for any similar cases in the future.

  14:37:31 <phillw> I'd consider not being able to browse a mounted usb stick as critical.

  14:38:04 <phillw> though as to which application to file it against... that is another matter.

  14:38:09 <astraljava> Yeah, me too; again with the releasability, I would not release such an image where file browsing of removable media doesn't work.

  14:38:11 <balloons> well, my idea was the terms are confusing and unneeded. Simply note the bugs filed when they happen

  14:38:18 <balloons> lp will take care of severity

  14:38:58 <astraljava> That's true. So we'll just figure out inside the project, whether the bug constitutes the test as failing or passing?

  14:39:36 <balloons> well, I mean if the test fails, it fails

  14:39:41 <balloons> etheir way you note the bugs

  14:40:00 <balloons> as far as when you release and what you release it's up to the team

  14:40:10 <balloons> you can release note (almost) anything ;-0

  14:40:46 <astraljava> Right. Well let me put it another way; are there situations where a point in the testcase fails, but will not fail the whole test?

  14:41:20 <astraljava> Or are all points critical in that sense; fail any, and the whole test is marked as failed.

  14:43:07 <balloons> astraljava, right.. as of now, everything is crticial

  14:43:15 <balloons> if ANYTHING fails, the whole thing fails

  14:43:31 <astraljava> Ok, thanks. We'll just have to be careful with the wording, then. Cheers!

  14:43:41 <astraljava> ..

  14:44:34 <balloons> ok, from my end, I'll be quick, we're running out of time. phillw and myself prototyped out the structure for the new testcase mgmt on the tracker

  14:44:53 <balloons> i'll be migrating over the first testcases today and sending a mail off for feedback

  14:45:22 <balloons> so look for that, and be sure and share your thoughts. We'll discuss the admin side in more detail tomorrow @ the roundtable..

  14:46:47 <balloons> A new team has been created in order to help maintain testcases.. I'll be asking some folks who are already involved to help staff it. The goal is to get a good group of trusted folks to maintain and expand the tests over time

  14:47:17 <balloons> that said, anyone can 'file a bug' to add a new testcase or issue a correction to a testcase

  14:47:43 <balloons> The testcase format hasn't changed, but I will be sending it around as well

  14:47:48 <balloons> Any questions?

  14:48:58 <balloons> for flavors it should allow you to setup testcases for your images, using the ubuntu testcases as needed.. So it should work out nicely

  14:49:22 <astraljava> Looking forward to seeing that. Good job!

  14:49:48 <balloons> stgraber has been wonderful in helping us get this all done.. be sure and thank him

  14:50:17 <balloons> alrighty, any final questions or comments?

  14:50:34 <phillw> o/

  14:50:55 <balloons> yes phillw

  14:51:09 <phillw> I will not be here next meeting, I'm hoping to have cover in place; but cannot guarantee. 14:51:17 * balloons notes that his IRC client really refuses to tab-complete phillw's name

  14:52:16 <balloons> no worries phillw.

  14:52:44 <balloons> if no one is able to fill in, we'll catch up the following week

  14:52:48 <balloons> alright folks, that's a wrap!

  14:52:52 <balloons> thanks for coming out everyone

  14:52:58 <balloons> #endmeeting