Ubuntu Open Week - Ubuntu Desktop Team - Sebastien Bacher - Fri, Apr 27, 2007
TZ UTC-4
(01:01:49 PM) seb128: hi everybody (01:01:54 PM) seb128: better now ;) (01:02:23 PM) seb128: I'm Sebastien Bacher, and I'm working on the Ubuntu Desktop (01:02:51 PM) seb128: the Desktop Team is basically the group of people who takes care of the Ubuntu desktop and try to make it rocking (01:03:15 PM) seb128: I've some notes for the session to present the team, what we are doing and what you can do to help the team (01:03:23 PM) seb128: I'll copy them on the chan (01:03:51 PM) seb128: and let you some time to comment on #ubuntu-classroom-chat between blocks (01:04:06 PM) seb128: comment are just if something about what I wrote was not clear (01:04:15 PM) seb128: otherwise we will do questions after the presentation ;) (01:04:28 PM) seb128: (01:04:30 PM) seb128: let's start (01:04:30 PM) seb128: (01:04:34 PM) seb128: Where you can find members of the desktop team: (01:04:34 PM) seb128: - the #ubuntu-desktop@freenode IRC chan (01:04:34 PM) seb128: - the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list (01:04:49 PM) seb128: (and also on the wiki and launchpad ;) (01:04:59 PM) seb128: (01:05:01 PM) seb128: The main goals for the team are: (01:05:01 PM) seb128: - update desktop packages when new upstream versions are available (01:05:01 PM) seb128: - make easy for users to try new cool softwares by packaging them quickly (01:05:01 PM) seb128: - have a good collaboration with upstream (01:05:01 PM) seb128: - triage and fix desktop bugs (01:05:02 PM) seb128: - make the Ubuntu Desktop ROCK! (01:05:41 PM) seb128: (01:06:01 PM) seb128: so that's what we are trying to do (01:06:14 PM) seb128: sometime we rock, sometime we could better ;) (01:06:49 PM) seb128: any help is welcome because we tend to have lot to do and the time is quite small (01:06:58 PM) seb128: I'll list the main area where you can contribute (01:07:08 PM) seb128: (01:07:16 PM) seb128: * Work on Bugs (01:07:16 PM) seb128: Bugs managements is a good part of the work for the desktop team at the moment and required to prioritise the work and now what problems should worked first (01:07:16 PM) seb128: - Places for desktop bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+assignedbugs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs (01:07:16 PM) seb128: - You can help the Desktop Team by joining the bug squad (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad) (01:07:17 PM) seb128: - help listing bugs that should be fixed for the next version of Ubuntu (or fixes to backport) (01:08:21 PM) seb128: (01:08:58 PM) seb128: (for people asking on what set of package the desktop team work: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs) (01:09:37 PM) seb128: (01:09:43 PM) seb128: bugs are not the only thing you can work on (01:09:47 PM) seb128: * Communication with other teams, upstream, Debian, etc: (01:09:47 PM) seb128: We want to have a good relationship with the Debian and Upstream (01:09:47 PM) seb128: - work on forwarding patches upstream (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/UpstreamDelta), having a low delta is better for everybody (01:09:47 PM) seb128: - become point of contact between the distribution and upstream for packages you have an interest in work with other teams and Debian (01:10:34 PM) seb128: (ups, "work with other teams and Debian" was an another pojnt, dropped the new line) (01:10:43 PM) seb128: (01:10:44 PM) seb128: also (01:10:45 PM) seb128: (01:10:46 PM) seb128: * Documentation (01:10:46 PM) seb128: A good documentation help new contributors to know where to start and also not-so-new team members how to do specific things, or what is to do by example (01:10:46 PM) seb128: - help by writing specifications (i.e: documents on launchpad and the wiki that describes the changes we want to get implemented and how) (01:10:48 PM) seb128: - update wiki pages for the DesktopTeam (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam) (goals, list of things to do, documentation, how to start, etc) (01:11:18 PM) seb128: (01:11:26 PM) seb128: Testing (01:11:27 PM) seb128: - help testing GNOME, write specific test plans (01:11:41 PM) seb128: (01:12:09 PM) seb128: one of the issues is to detect in the quantity of bugs we get which one are regression or items that should be fixed for the new version (01:12:34 PM) seb128: testing takes time but it's useful to detect regressions early and work on them (01:12:43 PM) seb128: (01:12:58 PM) seb128: * Packaging (01:12:58 PM) seb128: Most of the work for a distribution is at the packaging level which means there is some place to contribute there too :) (01:12:58 PM) seb128: - help doing desktop packages updates (update the package, test the new version, communicate issues with upstream is there is any) (01:12:58 PM) seb128: - pick a package you have interest in (contacting the usual maintainer before starting to work on it might be a good idea) and start working on it. No need to have uploads right to start on a package, having your first updates mentored is usually a good start and way to learn. If you do a good job you can quickly become the maintainer for that package (01:13:02 PM) seb128: - work on fixing issues by writting patches or backporting them from upstream and applying those fixes to the packages (01:13:05 PM) seb128: - package new softwares (01:13:58 PM) seb128: (01:14:05 PM) seb128: those are the main tasks we are working on (01:14:09 PM) seb128: some extra items still (01:14:11 PM) seb128: Other (01:14:11 PM) seb128: - new ideas: bring your good ideas of changes for the Ubuntu desktop and help to implement them (01:14:11 PM) seb128: - teams: if you can motivate several people to work on a project creating a team around it is a good way to organize work: gnomemm, pda, voip, whatever else you are interested to work on (01:14:11 PM) seb128: - If you have crazy ideas, write them up on DesktopTeam/Visions and discuss them on the mailing list. (01:14:32 PM) seb128: (01:14:47 PM) seb128: ok, that's was a quick overview of what we are doing (01:14:52 PM) seb128: there is lot to do as you can see (01:15:18 PM) seb128: especially that we have quite some packages maintained by the team and lot of enthusiastic users sending bugs ;) (01:15:44 PM) seb128: let's do questions and answers now (01:15:54 PM) seb128: you can ask them to #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<DoctorOwl> QUESTION: In your opinion, how does development of Ubuntu as a desktop OS fare against Ubuntu as a server OS? In addition, how do the size of the Desktop and Server teams compare, and is this any indication of the importance Canonical places on one over the other? If not, why not.
- Ubuntu does lot of desktop work but is good on server as well. most of the distribution team work on the distribution at a general level (ie: nothing desktop specific). we have now a separate server iso and efforts going to this direction. we want Ubuntu rocking on desktop and server
<Schalken> QUESTION: How do you decide what new versions of software should be packaged as updates, and which should be held off for the next release?
- we update to new stable versions during the unstable cycle, until the Upstream Version Freeze point. then we only pick bug fixes updates or things which we really want. if there is an unstable serie going on we look on the upstream schedule (if there is one). if they plan to release a stable version in time for us we can track the unstable series (what we do with GNOME). otherwise we stay on the stable series
<Amaranth> I think the question is more "when would you release new software as an update to a released version of Ubuntu?". Like firefox, etc we don't package new versions for a stable release. stable = not moving, by definition. firefox is an exeption because backporting security updates, etc is lot of hard work. when we can backport we prefer to do that there is ubuntu-backports though. which takes packages from the new unstable distribution and make them available for the stables. you can use that if you really want the keep using the stable serie with a new version of something
<Terramel> QUESTION: Ubuntu is growing very fast in the entire World. In Brazil is the most used Linux distribution... Strangely, companies that sell notebooks and desktop around here never sell their hardware with Ubuntu or any known LInux.. They sell with an odd brazilian distro that no one, not even brazilians know... Do Ubuntu team plan to reach more hardware here in Brazil?
thanks for the question, it's really out of the desktop team scope though.
Canonical work with OEM, hardware sellers, etc to get Ubuntu distributed. that's not easy work though. I think that should become better for linux with time
<bababian> QUESTION: Does ubuntu-desktop have too many features (many could mean productivity for veteran users, though) for new users to grasp?
not sure to understand the question
<bababian> I mean new users might prefer to have just one app that goes wth their needs, like the iTunes on a Mac we try to have no duplication on the default installation like have one application for one task.
<Amaranth> Lack of integration?
oh well, we are following GNOME there. the spirit is rather to make applications adapted to the tasks and easy to use. having an application doing everything complicates the interface a lot. you can install other applications than the one from the default desktop though. there is lot of choice to main and universe
<Belutz> QUESTION: what makes an application became included in default instalation? and how do desktop team determine which application must be in default installation?
- well, we ship the GNOME desktop so when something is accepted there we tend to add it as well. otherwise we add applications we find useful for our users. if you have any suggestion feel free to mail the ubuntu-desktop mailing list. we will consider it
QUESTION: What happened to the GstToUmbrella spec?
we got no consensus on what to do with g-s-t. it's far to be perfect but it's better. upsteam rewrote the architecture. it's using dbus now and backend can be written in something else than perl. so we decide to stay with it, because writting new tools would be lot of work and we are already overworked at the moment. g-s-t tools do mainly their job. they could use some bug fixing work though ... if anybody feels like sending patches, feel free
<Amaranth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FutureOfGst <--link for those who don't know what this is
<yosch> QUESTION: how many people are currently focused on i18n, complex scripts and font issues in the desktop-team?
- none, the Canonical part of the desktop team is 1.5 people. (Daniel Holbach is working also on MOTU and other things). we barely cope with new versions packaging and the hundreds of bugs a week we receive. we have some rocking contributors also but none interested in that it looks like
<j1mc> QUESTION: does the ubuntu-desktop group have any sway over what's included in the Kubuntu or Xubuntu desktop applications, or are they completely separate?
- (if you want to contribute for better i18n or font handling you are really welcome). completely separate. we do sometime some packaging changes to make the xubuntu job easier like we splited python-gnome so they can use gconf without depending on everything. we don't decide anything for them though
<Belutz> QUESTION: will in the future, we could choose the application to be install when installing ubuntu? I never use ekiga, so it's better i choose not to install it in the first place
- I don't think it's planned for now or a priority. we want to keep the installation simple and ekiga will only cost you some megs on your disk, which is really no big deal when you see the size of disk shipped nowadays. you are free to uninstall anything you don't want. (we try to move not required packages to Recommends now, so you can uninstall them without removing ubuntu-desktop)
<DShepher1> QUESTION: What, if any, are the features/changes/plans for feisty+1 or gusty+1 that you would like to see in the desktop-team goals? In other words wats your personal goals for the desktop-team?
- - desktop search integration is likely to happen for feisty+1 (beagle or tracker, not decided which one, we will discuss it during the next UDS) - better compiz and maybe use it by default - hum - make login work when you run out of disk space - menu simplication those are likely the main item for feisty+1 items. oh, also easy samba sharing
QUESTION: Why can't you upgrade without having ubuntu-desktop installed and why doesn't update-manager warn you about this?
hum, I'm not sure but I think update-manager does install ubuntu-desktop for the update. note what it had to install and remove it with what it had to install after. there is some clever logic there. maybe not clever enough though.
if you face an upgrade bug please file a bug with the log. there is corner cases listed, etc. still some extra cases could be added or improved
<spr0k3t> QUESTION: in the future releases of Ubuntu, what are the chances of moving to the Tango imagery by default?
ubuntu-artwork question. if you mean using the upstream blue tango theme, I think really low. the color is part of the ubuntu branding and I don't think it's going to change totally. and we like having Ubuntu not looking like other distributions I think
<Belutz> QUESTION: which one is better for the desktop-team, to include new application that may generate more bugs, or stick to old stable application?
I sort of replied to that one when I replied wrongly to the new version to -updates question.
if we think it'll stabilize in time for the next Ubuntu we will go for it and try to encourage upstream to have a look on launchpad bugs
<spr0k3t> QUESTION: I've read a few complaints about the differences of fonts between the desktop level and some of the default installed programs (Firefox as example), will there be any movement to bring the differences in fonts closer to a more unified look?
- I think that's job one or several bugs. we have like 20 000 of them open now. we can't tackle everything with the small team we have. I'm sure it'll be better at some point. dunno when though. if you have any suggestion on how to make it look better please open a bug or mail the ubuntu-devel list
<DShepher1> QUESTION: If ubuntu-deskop and kubuntu-desktop are installed together the Apps for (K)Ubuntu show up in the (K)Ubuntu Menu which, imho, can be really confusing. Is this the way the desktop-team would like it to work?
- no, that looks like a KDE/kubuntu choice. GNOME applications could be filtered
<Amaranth> I think this is maybe more a question for me.
GNOME and KDE use the same menu system (it's a specification on freedesktop.org) so without a way to filter out apps from the other desktop they will show up in the other desktop's menus. The problem with filtering them out is that some people like using k3b or amarok on Ubuntu or banshee on Kubuntu. KDE could have a preference to show GNOME items, that's a request for the kubuntu team
<j1mc> QUESTION: What approach do you think you'll take with samba sharing? fusesmb or some other solution? Xubuntu seems to have trouble with samba shares, so maybe we can piggyback off of your efforts. =)
looks like you are speaking about smb browsing. gnome-vfs is being rewritten upstream (gvfs). the new stack will likely be a low level one like glib and could be use by xubuntu. with some luck it'll work great.
we don't plan to use fuse afaik, no. that has been discussed for GNOME but it was not ideal and they prefer not going this way
<doctormo> QUESTION: Is there work being done on intergating mobile device syncing and utilisation so as to be plug and play?
we would love too. the team is already overworked though. we will do what we can. again if somebody has interest to that (and hardware to test), feel free to join the team. you can make a difference.
it'll go quicker with extra hands for sure
<eduard> QUESTION: why is the desktop team so small, given that this is a big priority for ubuntu? because you need to make money to pay people and Canonical doesn't make that much at the moment. there is an open Desktop QA position at the moment though. so it's getting better. <Amaranth> _everybody_ is overworked but desktop is not the only area that is overworked.: we got a firefox and an xorg maintainer now, but there is still packages like openoffice, kubuntu, server, etc (02:01:22 PM) seb128: thanks everybody for being there
(02:01:27 PM) seb128: and for the good questions!
(02:01:49 PM) seb128: if you want to join the team to have a look, or contribute in some area, or just discuss feel free
(02:02:09 PM) seb128: we are on #ubuntu-desktop most of time during european working hours (and often after that)
(02:02:17 PM) seb128: you can also use the ubuntu-desktop list
(02:02:27 PM) seb128: it's not that active at the moment because we use IRC a lot
(02:02:44 PM) seb128: but we would like to get extra activity there as well to show people cool stuff are happening, etc ;)