{{{
10:01	j1mc	hi all.
10:01	j1mc	do we have any Xubunteros here?
=== Admiral_Chicago raises hand
10:01	mr_pouit	o/
10:02	j1mc	:)
10:02	j1mc	hi mr_pouit and Admiral_Chicago
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10:02	j1mc	hi fijam
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10:02	fijam	hello everybody
10:03	hyper_ch	hiho
10:03	sacater	hi
10:03	j1mc	hi hyper_ch and sacater
10:03	sacater	i have been called forth
10:03	j1mc	:)
10:03	hyper_ch	what is juliux doing in here?
=== sacater shrugs
10:03	juliux	hyper_ch, ilden;)
10:03	sacater	well
10:03	sacater	ask the other question
10:03	sacater	what is he NOT doing here
10:03	sacater	in*
10:03	hyper_ch	sacater: ^^
10:04	hyper_ch	where is thesheep???
10:04	sacater	he is in xubuntu-dev
10:04	j1mc	we have an agenda up at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings , but I'm not married to it, as per usual.
=== sacater pulls it up
10:04	j1mc	it isn't even really much of an "agenda," unfortunately.
10:04	hyper_ch	what's an agenda? ^^
10:05	sacater	btw, has anyone considered meeting by VoIP
10:05	j1mc	i would like to hear from mr_pouit on how things are going, and i'd like to hear from everyone else on their interests and how we might make xubuntu better for gutsy.
10:05	hyper_ch	sacater: not a good thing ;) you couldn't understand a word with my accent
10:06	j1mc	mr_pouit  -  did you have anything on your mind that you would like discussed here?
10:06	sacater	hyper_ch: heh
10:06	Admiral_Chicago	i added somethign to the agenda
10:06	mr_pouit	j1mc: I uploaded xubuntu-restricted-extras yesterday
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10:06	hyper_ch	^^
10:07	mr_pouit	I am waiting for a possible xfce 4.4.2 release (they spoke of it on xfce4-dev)
10:07	j1mc	mr_pouit: great!  did you go with the packages that we had discussed in the mailing list?
10:07	mr_pouit	yes
10:07	j1mc	thank you for doing that.  and, yes, i had heard about a possible xfce 4.4.2 release, too.
10:07	sacater	when is xfce 4.4.2 due to be releaseed
10:08	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: thanks for adding that.  i had heard about that, too.
10:08	j1mc	s/heard/thought
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10:08	Jester45	sorry to interrupt but is this for gusty or the next release
10:08	sacater	gutsy
10:09	sacater	well
10:09	Jester45	ok
10:09	sacater	next release is gutsy
10:09	mr_pouit	sacater: nothing has been decided yet. It seems this is mostly to fix a very bad bug with gtk 2.11.
10:09	Jester45	both?
10:09	sacater	due october
10:09	sacater	the next next release (2008) hasnt been thought about yet
10:09	sacater	and of course hasnt been code-named either
10:09	Jester45	sacater, gusty or the one after that, but i guess thats to far into the furture to be working on it
10:10	sacater	the next release, due october, is gutsy
10:10	j1mc	mr_pouit: thanks for your help with packaging items from Xfce.
10:10	mr_pouit	np ;)
=== sacater feels a traitor, joining this meeting from his fluxbox lappy :P
10:11	j1mc	are there any new xfce apps that might be included with gutsy?  i'm thinking of the "places" panel plugin.
10:11	j1mc	i'm not sure of it's status.
10:11	mr_pouit	is it in gutsy?
=== sacater raises his hand
10:11	mr_pouit	iirc, gpocentek packaged it
10:11	Admiral_Chicago	sacater: i'm on an ubuntu lappy
10:12	j1mc	mr_pouit: ah, so it would be available via the panel plugins menu?
10:12	sacater	with gutsy, can we do a different default xfce-menu style, instead of applications and stuff at the top
10:12	j1mc	i know that somerville32 was interested in that.
10:12	sacater	its all inverted to how most people use xfce
10:12	mr_pouit	xfce4-places-plugin | 0.2.0-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
10:13	j1mc	thank you...
10:13	fijam	btw, got a question. How is that right-click desktop menu done in xubuntu? xfce doesn't have it by default
10:14	fijam	sorry if  this is offtopic
10:14	sacater	anyone know somewhere I can post a screenshot?
10:14	sacater	fijam: easy
10:14	Admiral_Chicago	imageshack.us
10:14	sacater	go to xfce settings
10:14	sacater	Admiral_Chicago: ty
10:14	j1mc	sacater: yes, xubuntu does have a different menu layout than other Xfce-based distros, but that doesn't mean we're bad.
10:14	sacater	and then do 'right click menu' or something
10:14	j1mc	or that it's a wrong approach.
10:14	sacater	j1mc: never implied that
10:15	fijam	sacater:  yes, but it is customized. In default xfce 4.4 installation it is just the applications menu, while we have 'create directory', 'create from template' etc.
10:16	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: would you like to talk about the help you need with the release notes?
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	sure
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	well I have a few ideas.
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	we can talk about the newest uploads related to using the internet
10:16	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: is there a wiki page up for the release notes yet, even if they're a draft?
10:16	Admiral_Chicago	such as nspluginwrapper, and iceape
10:17	Admiral_Chicago	i created the page, still need to add content
10:17	j1mc	linky?
10:18	Admiral_Chicago	sec
10:19	Admiral_Chicago	should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe2/Xubuntu
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10:20	j1mc	what are nspluginwrapper and iceape...
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10:21	Admiral_Chicago	the other thing is we have gutsy commit list, so we can search through that and look for updates
10:21	j1mc	if you're sure that they're new to Xubuntu for this release, please add them.  I think we should also mention the upload of Xubuntu-restricted-extras.
10:21	Admiral_Chicago	nspluginwrapper lets you use flash in 64 bit firefox
10:21	j1mc	ah, ok...
10:22	j1mc	and nsplusinwrapper is available for install with tribe 2?
10:22	Admiral_Chicago	iceape is the mozilla suite, firefox + thunderbird + sunbird iirc
10:22	Admiral_Chicago	well i know its the mozilla suite
10:22	Admiral_Chicago	but its a testing build
10:22	j1mc	ok.  thanks.
10:22	Admiral_Chicago	we also have firefox-trunk a package to test bleeding edgy firefox 3
10:22	fijam	it may be unbranded, hence the 'ice'
10:23	Admiral_Chicago	it is unbranded
10:24	Admiral_Chicago	nspluginwrapper is uploaded and installable, the spec in progress is to launch and install it to config automagically when someone uploads something like flashplugin-nonfree
10:24	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: if you wouldn't mind just adding the new items that you want to cover, i'm sure we can get some people to help flesh out the content.
10:24	j1mc	it would be good if we could be included in Martin Pitt's (or whoever sends out the note) release announement for tribe 2.
10:25	Admiral_Chicago	yes
10:25	j1mc	would anyone here be will to help flesh-out the release notes for tribe 2?
10:26	j1mc	other than Admiral_Chicago ?  :)
10:26	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: this would be a good place to get started on docs :)
10:26	fijam	I suppose so
10:26	fijam	sure, I'll help, just need clear instructions
10:27	j1mc	fijam: thanks.  :)  one good example is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe1/Xubuntu
10:28	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: i'll be clear. what is your time zone?
10:28	fijam	GMT +2
10:28	Admiral_Chicago	you are east coast?
10:28	fijam	j1mc: thanks for the link
10:29	fijam	Admiral_Chicago: Europe, PL
10:29	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: he's 7 hours ahead of us.  :)
10:29	Admiral_Chicago	ah okay. UTC + 2
10:29	Admiral_Chicago	thanks
10:30	fijam	this would allow for contstant work on the documentation :)
10:30	j1mc	heh  :)
10:30	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: i'll be working on it ~6 UTC, so like 8AM for you.
10:30	Admiral_Chicago	i'm not sure of your schedule
10:30	Admiral_Chicago	you may have work / a real life unlike me
10:31	Admiral_Chicago	anyone else willing to help on the notes
10:31	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: if you can get the commit list and forward it on to me, i can get a start on things, too.
10:31	fijam	That's the middle of the night for me. Seriously though, I have the holidays right now, so I guess I could be strarting at about 10 (local time)
10:31	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: I
10:31	Admiral_Chicago	err https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/
10:32	j1mc	thank you.
10:33	j1mc	we need to contact someone from the dev team and let them know we'll have these ready so that they can include us in the announcement.
10:33	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: way ahead of you. did it already
10:33	j1mc	awesome.  :)
10:33	j1mc	can we have something on xubuntu.org, too?
10:34	Admiral_Chicago	i'll add it as well after the notes are out like i did on the last one
10:34	Admiral_Chicago	win 6
10:34	Admiral_Chicago	err
10:34	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: you have access to xubuntu.org to add it?
10:34	Admiral_Chicago	yea
10:35	j1mc	w00t
10:35	j1mc	anything else on this topic?
=== karimfayez [n=karim@196.219.211.92] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
10:35	Admiral_Chicago	i'm looking for a way to streamline the process for the future
10:35	j1mc	next then?
10:36	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: good idea...
10:36	Admiral_Chicago	but for now, I think I can handle it. it snuck up on me this time
10:36	j1mc	mr_pouit: is there anything you'd recommend for us here?
10:36	j1mc	any way for us to make sure we know about the latest updates provided in each milestone release?
10:36	j1mc	... so that we can be sure to highlight them in the release notes?
10:37	fijam	good question
10:37	mr_pouit	gutsy-changes, as said previously
10:37	fijam	and how do we pick the most relevant ones?
10:37	Admiral_Chicago	mr_pouit: is there anything you wnt highlighted?
10:37	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: look for the ones with "Lionel Le Folgoc" next to them
10:38	fijam	whatever it is - acknowledged
10:38	mr_pouit	fijam: you can subscribe to the rss feed, that's better
10:38	mr_pouit	so your mailbos won't get flooded
10:38	mr_pouit	*box
10:38	j1mc	this is good stuff to know.  :)
10:39	fijam	not a bad idea
10:40	mr_pouit	most of the 'main' changes will be post-tribe2 anyway
10:40	Admiral_Chicago	added some changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe2/Xubuntu about packages to highlight
10:41	Admiral_Chicago	wine 0.9.38 maybe...
10:41	Admiral_Chicago	gnumeric
10:41	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: thanks.  I think that this topic is something that could get added to our "ways to contribute to Xubuntu" list.
10:41	Admiral_Chicago	definetl
10:41	j1mc	noted.
10:41	j1mc	:)
10:41	Admiral_Chicago	i'm looking to make this a team effort, not a "Let Freddy hack on it all the time"
10:42	j1mc	ok...
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10:42	j1mc	sacater: Jester45 you all still here?  :)
10:42	Admiral_Chicago	latest panel too..plans to include 4.4.2
10:43	Admiral_Chicago	not as a commit, but works in progess
10:43	j1mc	one of the things that came up at the last meeting was ways for people to contribute to Xubuntu in whatever way they can.
10:43	j1mc	i'm curious to know how others might want to contribute to Xubuntu... what interests them.
10:44	j1mc	Jester45: I know I see you providing great support in #xubuntu all the time.
10:45	j1mc	... ok, maybe they stepped away.
10:45	Admiral_Chicago	xubuntu art has been uploaded, what does that mean mr_pouit?
10:45	mr_pouit	xubuntu art?
10:46	mr_pouit	iirc, jmak hasn't finished yet
10:46	Admiral_Chicago	you can ignore me then...
10:47	Admiral_Chicago	I'm thinking that we can do a "look forward to section"
10:47	j1mc	mr_pouit: it looks like you uploaded a change in the xubuntu-artwork package  that fixed a bug: Fixed xubuntu-artwork-usplash.prerm to update-initramfs -u on package
10:47	j1mc	     remove.(LP: #83410)
10:48	mr_pouit	j1mc: ah yes
10:48	mr_pouit	Admiral_Chicago: sorry, you were right :P
10:49	j1mc	well, seeing as we have myself, Admiral_Chicago and fijam here... shall we talk a bit about documentation?
10:49	Admiral_Chicago	hehe, i think we can stop talking about the release noted
10:49	Admiral_Chicago	lets
10:50	j1mc	well, we're slowly making progress, uploading our first real patch yesterday, but we should probably have a timeframe mapped out to make sure we don't get too rushed at the end.
10:51	j1mc	and maybe we can assign each other specific sections to focus on...
10:51	Admiral_Chicago	agreed. I return to school August 15th, about a month before string freeze
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10:51	j1mc	welcome back, hyper_ch
10:52	j1mc	ok.  i'll see if i can draft something up.
10:52	hyper_ch	j1mc: thx, just rebooting the router
10:52	j1mc	hyper_ch: :)
10:52	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: i'll take multimedia
10:52	j1mc	ok  :)
10:52	Admiral_Chicago	i've been working on it anyways
10:52	hyper_ch	are there now plans to integrate a gui search for files?
10:53	j1mc	hyper_ch: good question . . .   can we save that to be our next topic?
10:53	fijam	exactly, there was Tracker once suggested
10:53	hyper_ch	j1mc: sure :)
10:53	j1mc	cool.
10:54	fijam	well, if I might say something about the documentation
10:54	j1mc	i'll set up a basic list of topics to be included, and will let each of you know when it's ready.  from there, we can just assign our names to topics.
10:54	j1mc	fijam: go ahead.
10:54	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: i'd suggest making a wiki page wth all the topic
10:54	Admiral_Chicago	you beat me to it
10:54	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: also, milestones for when to get them donw
10:54	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: sounds good.
10:55	Admiral_Chicago	imho i think the next section should be done in a week.
10:55	j1mc	fijam: what were you going to say?
10:55	fijam	yes...
10:55	fijam	I think I'll just thoroughly study the patches in the coming days before I start commiting my own to the mailing list
10:55	fijam	so I get the confidence on where the changes are heading to
10:56	j1mc	fijam: that's cool.  :)  if you all would like... i think we're all new to documentation... maybe we could share our patches with each other before sending them out to the list, as long as it doesn't slow things down too much.
10:56	fijam	I must say that I share the doubts of Lucius, that editing ubuntu documentation may create some obstacles in compariston to 'starting from the scratch' approach
10:56	Jester45	im here now
=== j1mc has been bad, sitting on Admiral_Chicago's multimedia page for a while.
10:56	Jester45	let me read what i missed
10:57	fijam	but I understand that both approaches have its advantages and disadvantages
10:57	fijam	and I will gladly follow the chosen path
=== j1mc nods
10:57	Admiral_Chicago	i agree but we read the ubuntu docs were carefully and there is a lot of similarities
10:57	Admiral_Chicago	however i was unhappy with the way some things were described and what not
=== j1mc meant to nod at the "i understand both approaches . . . " statement.
10:58	j1mc	i've found that (iirc) pressing Alt-F2 on Xubuntu brings up the XFCE documentation.  :)
10:58	j1mc	it may be a bit outdated (for xfce 4.2, i think) but it may help us.
10:59	Jester45	are you sure thats not alt+F1
10:59	fijam	allright, I see rational and careful modification of the existing ubuntu documetnation as a viable solution
11:00	j1mc	I think it's alt-f2.  i don't have a xubuntu box with me here now, though.
11:00	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: rewritting from scratch would also require us to learn much more docbook than we should responsibly consider
11:00	Jester45	j1mc, well con feisty Alt+F2 is the run dialog F1 is the docs
11:00	j1mc	yeah... :)  it's much easier to learn as we go by modifying the ubuntu docs.  :)
11:00	j1mc	Jester45: you're probably right.  i'll have to check it out when I get home.
11:01	Jester45	j1mc, thanks its nice to know someone noticed me helping out
11:01	Admiral_Chicago	our goal is to have good solid docs done that are TBH
11:01	j1mc	as a matter of fact, i know you're right.  :)
11:01	j1mc	Jester45: you provide good support.
11:02	j1mc	I'll let you both know when I have the documentation "schedule" up.
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11:02	j1mc	we also need to check with somerville32 and maxamillion about our revised spec for the Xubuntu Documentation Browser.
11:03	fijam_	I think I lost the connection
11:03	fijam_	what was the last thing I said?
11:03	j1mc	fijam_: [15:59]  <fijam> allright, I see rational and careful modification of the existing ubuntu documetnation as a viable solution
11:03	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: i'm a bit concerned if that will go through
11:03	j1mc	Admiral_Chicago: me, too.
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11:04	j1mc	i'm not counting on it.
11:04	Admiral_Chicago	we haven't had much feedback about that.
11:04	fijam_	the documentation browser?
11:04	j1mc	fijam_:  yes
11:04	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: cubs win. 6-4: sweep rockies.
11:04	Admiral_Chicago	sorry about the OT
11:04	fijam_	I am no coder. sorry.
11:04	j1mc	somerville32 leaves for the summer in the next few days.  he won't be back until august.
11:05	j1mc	we need to get a status update from him on this quickly.
11:05	j1mc	or get some input from him on this quickly.
11:05	Admiral_Chicago	ye
11:05	j1mc	i'll send him a note.
11:05	Admiral_Chicago	cool
=== Jester45 notes thats max has joined #xubuntu
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11:06	Admiral_Chicago	speaking of which...
11:06	j1mc	hi maxamillion
11:06	maxamillion	hi
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11:06	maxamillion	sorry
11:06	j1mc	np
11:06	maxamillion	i was in a meeting with my boss (i'm at work)
11:06	Jester45	<j1mc> we also need to check with somerville32 and maxamillion about our revised spec for the Xubuntu Documentation Browser.
11:06	fijam_	Hello
11:06	maxamillion	Jester45: thanks
11:06	fijam_	j1mc: you suggested that we could share the patches, before commiting them to the mailing list. How? On the channel?
11:06	Jester45	np, helping out
11:06	maxamillion	j1mc: i haven't had a chance to look over the revised spec
11:06	j1mc	fijam_: we could email them to each other.
11:06	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: google docs works.
11:06	Admiral_Chicago	as well
11:07	fijam_	great idea, I'd love that
11:07	j1mc	maxamillion: np.  do you think you could talk it over with somerville32 in the next day or so?
11:08	j1mc	he leaves for the summer in the very near future.
11:08	maxamillion	j1mc: as soon as i catch him online i can ... i might just have to text message him soon and try to see if he would have free time to look it over
11:08	j1mc	also, in regards to somerville32, he offered to host the test xubuntu.org site on his home server, but i don't know if that is set up.
=== hyper_ch got two servers
11:09	maxamillion	j1mc: another thing is that i am about to start up a summer session concurrent systems programming in C course in a week and won't have much time
11:09	j1mc	maxamillion: ah, ok...
11:10	j1mc	perhaps we need to defer the X-D-B. schedules getting in the way.
11:10	maxamillion	j1mc: but at the same time, from the sounds of it ... the app would only take a weekend of hacking to get finished and from there we just need to get it in the repos and promoted to main
11:10	j1mc	yeah...
11:10	j1mc	please see if you can talk to cody about it.
11:10	maxamillion	j1mc: will do
11:10	maxamillion	j1mc: i imagine that between us we would be able to pull it off
11:10	maxamillion	j1mc: well ... the coding atleast
11:10	j1mc	please send him an email... i'm not sure when he'll be on IRC.
11:11	j1mc	guys, i'm sorry, but i need to go... :(  i have work stuff to do.
11:11	j1mc	please continue... :)
11:12	j1mc	maybe see how Jester45 can help us out with his awesome skills.  :)
11:13	Admiral_Chicago	I
11:13	Admiral_Chicago	j1mc: Ill continue the discussions
11:13	fijam_	I have a suggestion, since the xubuntu documentation will be in general ubuntu documentation + xfce specific features + a few selected apps, maybe we could see if an cooperation with xfce team on their documentation could be a good idea
11:13	fijam_	s/an/a
11:14	fijam_	this would enable us to push the documentation forward, and have some influence on timing
11:14	fijam_	please comment
11:16	Admiral_Chicago	the issue is getting in contact with people and making sure its being worked on
=== fijam_ is now known as fijam
11:16	servaas-xubuntu-	fijam maybe there are documenters of other distros also interested ?
11:17	fijam	coordinating this is of course a challenge, but I think that the advantages would be substancial
11:18	Admiral_Chicago	do you mean an upstream documentation browser?
11:18	Admiral_Chicago	i don't know how upstream deals with their doc displays
11:19	fijam	I mean we help xfce people write xfce 4.4 documentation (which is not completed yet) and at the same time we help ourselves
11:20	fijam	and we are not forced to wait till they finish it, so we could incorporate it in xubuntu documentation
11:20	Admiral_Chicago	ah yes, jim was talking about getting better work with upstream, their docs need love too
11:20	fijam	sorry if I am unclear on this, it's getting late
11:21	fijam	right, I'll drop Jim an email to get to know how he sees it, ok?
11:21	Admiral_Chicago	cool
11:22	Admiral_Chicago	I can't think of anythign else, anyone else with idead?
11:23	fijam	it would be cool. if you could set the google doc for us, if we all agree to use it
11:24	fijam	s/./,
11:24	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: google docs for what
11:24	fijam	for documentation patches exchange
11:24	Admiral_Chicago	ah yes, I'll set that up
11:25	Admiral_Chicago	fijam: are you on launchpad?
11:25	fijam	yes
11:25	fijam	https://launchpad.net/~fijam7
11:25	Admiral_Chicago	thanks
11:26	fijam	got to go in a few minutes
11:26	Admiral_Chicago	your email on there?
11:26	fijam	in opengpg, but it's fijam7@gmail.com
11:26	Admiral_Chicago	okay thank you
11:26	Admiral_Chicago	i'll set it up and mail it
11:26	fijam	s/gpg/pgp
11:26	fijam	no problem
11:26	fijam	allright
11:27	Admiral_Chicago	if that's all, I think we can conclude the meeting
11:27	Admiral_Chicago	anything else?
11:27	Admiral_Chicago	no objections?
11:30	fijam	I just realized that I have to deal with some red-tape tomorrow morning, expect news from me about 3PM utc
11:30	fijam	very well, thank you for the meeting then
11:31	Admiral_Chicago	good meeting everyone
11:31	fijam	see you soon
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11:35	Jester45	is the meeting over?
11:35	Admiral_Chicago	i think so
}}}