21:01:36 =========START MEETING========= 21:01:50 just mike_f and xzai? 21:02:05 poningru, mark007, lando, elcasey, tlcoffee you here? 21:02:08 oh theres casey 21:02:09 * elcasey-lap is here 21:02:22 yup, bordy. 21:02:26 i decided it was time to hit the couch 21:02:38 thats a good plan, wish I had a laptop 21:02:55 Alright... first off, thanks for actually showing up to the time I arbitrarily set 21:03:11 Or just idling and happening to be here :-) 21:03:15 shhhh 21:03:17 ;) 21:03:18 your welcome 21:03:38 One of the first things we really need to focus on is getting our team to be recognized as official 21:03:50 how do we do that 21:03:55 that opens up windows for us as far as what resources are available through canonical 21:04:35 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto 21:04:42 describes houw to become approved 21:05:04 we need to show that we've established all our resources (which we have), and that we have a sustained presence in the loco community 21:05:39 we have sustained a presence for a couple of weeks 21:05:41 with some effect, be it finding or fixing bugs, advocacy (like Mike_F and his show coming up), help in the forums/IRC, etc. 21:06:06 i still have to find out if i can do it 21:06:20 Well one of the ways they recommend making a splash is creating a local distro, which we've talked about before too 21:06:41 as long as it's less $200 and there is room for me 21:07:01 has anyone looked at uck 21:07:05 oh, here's a better "Getting approved" page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved 21:07:32 eeek almost missed the meeting 21:07:50 damn yous lando! ;) 21:07:51 lol 21:07:52 i think this'll run a bit more smoothly if bordy and whoever else is "running" the meeting cover all the pertinent points and then we discuss them afterward 21:08:06 otherwise we'll get off on tangents...at least I'm that way :P 21:08:21 that eocc show should count for one of the experiences 21:08:30 thats true Mike 21:08:44 yeah, I will do that right quick here.... give me a second to type out what we're going to cover, then we can move on them. 21:08:49 anyone around orlando is welcome to show up, we a cool chamber of commerce 21:09:11 (and btw, the agendas for the meetings will always be on wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Meetings for editing and adding to by anyone 21:10:05 1) Disucss plans for becoming approved 21:10:21 2) Discuss the importance of creating/editing our own personal wikis on wiki.ubuntu.com 21:10:30 3) recruiting, recruiting, recruiting 21:10:38 4) Promotion ideas (natecohn) 21:10:54 5) discuss personal skills we might have to help grow the florida team (natecohn) 21:11:10 thats all we had on the wiki for now 21:11:30 And funny enough, everything we do will aim towards goal 1, getting approved 21:11:34 so we can start anywhere. 21:12:18 5 21:12:31 fair enough, we'll start there. ;) 21:12:43 who's first? 21:12:54 its mine i can go first 21:13:10 Personally, as I am sure all of you know, I have far inferior computer skills... all I can really hope to bring here is a level of organization, and a desire to see us succeed.. sort of an enabler, as it were. 21:13:24 which is awsome 21:13:39 And I am glad you guys haven't revolted yet ;) 21:13:52 i do video work, i can draw, web design, im pretty much just an artist 21:13:53 * elcasey-lap is still gruntled :D 21:13:56 and a really good cook 21:14:12 i also know how to party and get people hyped up about shit 21:14:28 ;) 21:14:32 Hey Everyone! Danny here (bodycoach2 in the forums) 21:14:34 and you have friends who take their shirts off. 21:14:50 Canonical is gonna *love* us xD 21:14:53 hey danny.. we're in the process of listing what we can do, so we have an idea of each others capabilities and who to ask for certain things 21:15:24 yea 21:15:29 i can get girls naked 21:15:30 Hmmm 21:15:43 lol. Alright, Mike_F, whatcha got 21:16:02 20+ enginering and business experince 21:17:08 So you are decent with coding and whatnot? I would like to get us somewhat involved in bug triaging, mainly because I want to learn it myself but also because it gives us a bit of visibility 21:17:10 do you really want me to get into details, what do we want to do? 21:17:15 not yet 21:17:21 but we will get there 21:17:29 I think the biggest thing we can do is get Ubuntu onto old computers, and get those computers to people who need them 21:17:50 afternoon vorian 21:17:59 spose we can let a dirty buckeye in here 21:18:00 bordy: if we just all take time to file bugs as we find them, that'll help immensely. The guys on the various coding projects do a great job marking duplicates and moving up new bugs 21:18:08 hola :) 21:18:19 We just need to work on bug #1 21:18:21 hi vorian...didn't know you were in florida 21:18:25 coachdanny: so true ;) 21:18:36 elcasey-lap a good idea, that I've been trying to do, is follow the forums and lp and see if there is anything we can work on ourself 21:18:37 oh, oh, he is a buckeye...forgot :P 21:19:10 bordy: I had a serious feisty bug (it wouldn't boot), and I was impressed with how quickly it was solved, and how communicative the kernel guys were. 21:19:14 I've given out 16 computers with Ubuntu variants so far. 21:19:20 yeah those guys are good. 21:19:27 coachdanny: lets move with that topic. 21:19:34 have you looked into starting a freegeek chapter? 21:19:57 yes....they have a wiki on the subject: http://wiki.freegeek.org 21:20:01 I think that giving away computers thing could help getting our group offical 21:20:12 how much work would be needed to get it running coachdanny? 21:20:36 vorian: we were discussing a lil about getting approved. Since you've done it, and you are our assigned mentor, feel free to jump in. lol 21:20:41 Right now, I'm doing it independently. If we can find a way to organize each independent person, we might be able to come up with our own free geek variant 21:20:46 * bordy has an aside on this topic right quick 21:21:23 Vorian is our assigned mentor, assigned through the Ubuntu-us umbrella group. I really want to get in on that, I think I could do wonders helping new or struggling teams, since I can't really help with coding... but we can't help til we're approved. it is a vicious cycle. 21:21:29 are we still talking about peoples skills ? 21:21:30 * bordy is done with his aside... sorry. 21:21:36 oh cool 21:21:52 Hello Vorian 21:22:19 I have been interested in the freegeek action, I just don't know what the time/money commitments are. Might you want to run with that Coachdanny, and maybe create a subpage of the floridateam wiki about it? 21:22:27 so we can track progress and help when needed? 21:22:40 I can do that. 21:22:48 have you edited wikis yet? 21:22:57 Not yet....need to learn anyway 21:23:08 that segues well into my next topic 21:23:13 the MoinMoin stuff isn't too different from wikipedia's, for example 21:23:17 * bordy sets new topic to Wikis 21:23:26 wikinomics! 21:23:29 http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde 21:23:30 excellent book 21:23:42 that is my page... it couldn't hurt any of us to go through and set one up. 21:23:52 If anyone wants to mess around I have a prototype wiki site online 21:23:59 If you make one, make it to match either your real name (wiki style) or how your name is listed on the team page 21:24:14 if you ever want to become an ubuntu member, you need to have a wiki set up with your accomplishments, plans, etc. 21:24:18 its http://wiki.gs 21:24:40 this is part of my line of business 21:24:59 oh thats right, I saw that. 21:25:01 very nice 21:25:18 anyone is welcome to use it to experiment 21:25:21 Now, statik had brought up the idea of maybe setting up starter wikis for those of us who don't have them yet, and just letting them go in and edit the information 21:25:30 * bordy wishes statik were here! 21:25:40 aye 21:25:56 That could be a decent lil half-hour project for a couple of us to do, and I am completely willing to do it myself if yall don't have the time 21:26:02 i think it'd be a good idea to have a text file worked up as a "wiki template" 21:26:10 damn good idea 21:26:20 i can help with that if you want 21:26:26 I like that idea 21:26:51 thanks. Maybe a text file with the template, and another for a how-to? the how-to given by the wiki could stand to be a little better, and I am thinking of going in and fixing it up 21:26:58 * bordy wants to get on the docs-team ;) 21:26:58 bordy - is the ChrisRohde your wiki? 21:27:01 we might want to write a simple "style guide" that all of our wikis should generally adhere to, to give us a unified presence within our own Wiki heading 21:27:04 coachdanny: yeah 21:27:16 was that from a template? 21:27:23 elcasey-lap yeah thats a good idea... i went kinda nuts on mine, cause i like the icons. lol 21:27:34 coachdanny: no, but I stole style ideas from people like vorian and nixternal 21:27:45 the icons look great, and they're *easy* to put into wikis if you use the IconsPage images. ;) 21:27:52 Guess who told me that? :P 21:27:54 oh i love me some iconspage 21:27:58 <-- this guy! 21:28:02 :D 21:28:12 vorian - can you give a link to your wiki 21:28:35 http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Vorian 21:28:45 http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nixternal 21:28:56 Also look at their team pages (ohio and Chicago, respectively) because they are wonderful 21:29:27 But both teams are very organized, and already approved... .so tracking how they do things can only help us in the long run 21:30:21 any of us who are going to be involved with promotion should at least join the Marketing mailing list 21:30:46 yeah I would also recomment the LoCo Contacts list.. even though the official contacts are me and poningru, it is a good list to be on 21:30:47 their meeting is going on right now, too, but they're fairly active and I know a lot of those guys 21:31:16 I joined the marketing team, the mailing list is very helpfule 21:31:18 dammit I thought their meeting wasnt til 4! 21:31:38 bordy: adamant1988 was telling me it was at 3, but I thought it was at 4, too. 21:31:41 elcasey - Do you know anything about the Marketing strategy? 21:32:13 I don't really have any particulars, but Jenda is probably the man to contact. He's often online here in Freenode. 21:32:20 their channel is #ubuntu-marketing 21:32:39 coachdanny: what did you wanna know? 21:32:48 I used to idle in there, but that was before I knew a Florida LoCo was being formed 21:33:29 Mostly what their general strategy is for marketing. If we know that, we can do things to follow with that strategy locally. 21:33:40 There isn't any action on ubuntu-markerting are you in the right time zone 21:33:43 http://wiki.ubunt.com/DIYMarketing 21:33:58 Mike_F: the meeting must be at 4, then 21:34:14 I'd like to get some automotive stickers for the back window of cars, like the white apple logo 21:34:18 and I seem to remember Jenda telling me it was at 4 21:34:19 Ubuntu logo instead 21:34:30 Alright, onward... xzai, want to kick off whatever ideas you had for your other agenda addition? 21:34:32 The marketing posting is cool 21:34:36 coachdanny: that is a great idea, since I still need to scrape the Apple sticker off of my car :P 21:34:45 coachdanny: if you order CD's from shipit they send you stickers too ;) 21:34:51 I got two sheets of stickers from Canonical when my CDs arrived 21:35:13 speaking of ordering CDs... 21:35:14 but they're paper, so they'd probably fade out on a car pretty quickly 21:35:16 gotta get the name out localy 21:35:26 Any ideas on that xzai? 21:35:30 What's an apple, is that a computer? 21:35:32 I made my own stickers for the computers 21:35:34 Mike_F: :P 21:35:53 i think figuring out what groups would be willing to adopt ubuntu around here first 21:35:57 surfers and old people 21:36:11 old people cus they dont know any better 21:36:17 hey 21:36:18 small businesses like things that are free 21:36:23 and surfers cus free stuff is cool to them 21:36:24 xzai I have found that people 50+ who don't really know what they are doing are incredibly easy... my mom, my friends moms, etc. lol 21:36:38 lol raptor2552 21:36:49 http://flickr.com/photos/coachdanny/218104519/ 21:37:16 starting a free geek around here 21:37:17 I'm not getting old, I'm simply aging 21:37:17 nice, danny! 21:37:18 I talked about Linux with one friend of mine who owns an architectural firm. The biggest barrier to adopting Linux, I've found, is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." 21:37:33 He has no intention of going to Vista, so he has no intention of making any changes yet. 21:37:33 Getting back to bug one, maybe people should think of Ubuntu as an XP upgrade 21:37:35 and putting ubuntu on it 21:37:39 But obviously *everyone* isn't the same way. 21:37:39 elcasey-lap well then we need to show them why it is broke 21:37:50 but i think we should get on the wiki 21:38:00 and put down ideas to get ubuntu out there 21:38:14 i'm a bit reticent to push changes into a working production environment 21:38:19 That "if it ain't broke" thing is why I focus on getting the older computers out to people who need one, with Ubuntu on it. 21:38:23 xzai, you wanna tackle a marketing ideas subwiki on floridateam? 21:38:27 with end users, it's different 21:38:34 ahhh um sure 21:38:44 not alone, but if you come up with anything good, just throw it on there 21:38:45 Average person isn't going to change, until it's absolutely necessary 21:38:58 alright 21:39:13 until they encounter vista 21:39:16 coachdanny: all it took me with my friends mom was explaining the problems with IE and how they relate to the problems with windows (re: malware and the giant target that is MS) 21:39:33 I think the best way to promote Ubuntu is let people know it exists 21:39:49 i think holding ubuntu up as not just an alternative to Vista, but as what's right with software where Vista is wrong, is a good opportunity 21:40:04 I've converted about 20 computers so far, but only after they've been so infected, the computer grows boils. 21:40:20 Throw in Open Office, Firefox and Gimp they run on windows too 21:40:28 Vista is wrong mostly on price 21:40:30 coachdanny: thats why I am getting my mom fixed up too. that and remote fixing of her stuff 21:40:43 doi 21:40:47 sorry here 21:40:51 Mike_F: good point...familiarization with common *nix apps under windows removes a big barrier. 21:40:55 Learning how to fix things remotely would help all of us for future business opportunities 21:40:57 hey poningru youre alive! 21:41:21 Is there a "How To" on that in the How to forum thread? 21:41:23 my folks aren't going to switch to linux, and i'm not gonna push them, but because I was so frustrated supporting them with Outlook Express and IE6, I've got them on FF, T-bird and OOo now. 21:41:46 the support applications are the big cost in the pay as you go world of software 21:41:48 which makes it that easier when it's time to flush XP. 21:41:52 elcasey-lap yeah I feel the same way, but I am sick of workin on my mom's dying comp. so I gotta move stronger 21:42:05 bordy: if it dies again, they won't be getting a choice :P 21:42:37 One of the stronger points, i think, in advocating ubuntu, is the free support in the forms of forums, wikis, and the ever-helpful mailing list 21:42:50 omfg 21:42:51 I would never recommend going to #ubuntu, since it is terribly trying to get help in there 21:43:00 I remember when 21:43:00 I've had an idea about online support 21:43:07 #ubuntu is a madhouse 21:43:07 off topic but my GF called me and april foolsed me with she was pregnant 21:43:15 the horror 21:43:15 oh the bitch! 21:43:34 oh my! 21:43:35 I'm a ChaCha guide, and I have "Ubuntu Linux support help" as a keyword for my 'clients'. 21:43:40 MS support was free once 21:43:41 are u sure 21:43:41 commercial support is something even i don't know enough about 21:43:52 is it all outsourced, or does Canonical do its own? 21:44:07 back when someone name "Bill" still answered the phone 21:44:07 especially for businesses, support is going to be an issue 21:44:15 in the 50s?! :P 21:44:20 vorian - can you give a link to your wiki 21:44:22 Right 21:44:27 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup 21:44:31 :) 21:44:48 vorian you are running two wikis! the horror! 21:45:05 Most excellent wiki! 21:45:14 ive heard the horror twice in 2 minutes. the horror! 21:45:17 Guess want my business is, does 20+ years of UNIX/LINUX experience count 21:45:34 one thing before I forget -- someone should save the buffer from meetings as a form of minutes. Which we can clean up and turn into a decent document later... 21:45:59 good idea (the decent part) 21:46:03 ;) 21:46:10 I've had 20+ years of experience in Personal Training and fitness, but I can't think of any way for that to help. 21:46:22 elcasey-lap we are, locobot4 saves all logs, and I am going to move the meeting over to wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Minutes 21:46:26 too many of us nerds need to get back in shape :P 21:46:38 bordy: ok, i didn't know it was autologged already 21:46:40 coachdanny come down to the lakeland Y and train me back to Marine Corps shape ;) 21:46:49 GeekFit 21:46:51 Alright... back on a new topic 21:46:58 * bordy changes topic to sub-teams 21:47:18 I would LOVE a submarine! 21:47:28 where are we #3? 21:47:29 If you guys wil look at the ohio team wiki, you'll see they sort of organized into sub teams, with different responsibilities... theres only going to be so long that I am able to do all this on my own. 21:47:50 we'll hit 3 last, I think Mike_F 21:47:56 I think the education team is important too 21:47:56 cool 21:48:12 Any ideas as to how to distribute team responsibility? Or does anyone have a topic they are particularly fond of? 21:48:15 Maybe, getting Edubuntu to some schools will help proliferation. 21:48:26 coachdanny thats a hefty order 21:48:28 What are our locations around the state 21:48:34 bordy: Well, I think it oughta be split up by our abilities and interests. 21:48:39 most of us are pretty centralized, Mike_F 21:48:53 It seems like Orando is about an hour away for most 21:48:58 yea 21:49:01 elcasey-lap exactly.... I will keep handling wiki and launchpad stuff, and trying to steer us towards approval 21:49:01 after easter of course 21:49:03 bordy: those who are "people persons" can tackle marketing and such, i'm not half-bad with Photosh, er, the GIMP ;) 21:49:19 GIMPshop 21:49:32 bordy: someone to keep us on course is imperative. I'm technically sound, but I'm also not a programmer. 21:50:02 Welp, I am going to set up a couple new sub-pages... one for /accomplishments, one for /new members, etc 21:50:04 but I don't mind giving time to install ubuntu, etc. be it freegeek, local advocacy, whatever. 21:50:05 I can run a programming team, when we are ready 21:50:05 I'm in school for Information Technology, so I'm just learning the ropes 21:50:13 an we ani't ready 21:50:22 im really good with people but i think im not good for a first impression with linux 21:50:30 but I'm not much of a people person, i'll admit it. 21:50:36 and I want to get out that anything anybody accomplishes, be it bug fixes, reporting, events, etc I want people to add to the /accomplishments page 21:50:40 Best thing to do right now: let everyone know what your doing with old computers. You'll have about 20 within three months! 21:50:48 xzai: come on, tattoos and beer isn't the Ubuntu image?! 21:50:50 I can handle the people , I am quite a schmoozer. 21:51:06 lol dunno?! 21:51:07 People person here! It's been my business for 20 years (personal trainer) 21:51:08 I got a computer recycling place in the same building as me 21:51:12 heck, even if we were to design a couple florida-specific backgrounds, that would count. 21:51:28 the cover this area (brevard) and they never heard of ubuntu 21:51:34 Wow! 21:51:39 and Nate and I are local to each other, so we can coordinate some stuff physically, but I think we'll be involved in different areas. 21:51:44 Show them the free geek video on google 21:51:44 sorry guys I'm late 21:51:51 what are we discussing? 21:51:57 I don't even want to get into what they put on them 21:51:59 sub-teams, poningru 21:52:04 any ideas? 21:52:13 Mike_F: you're in Brevard, too? Cocoa, was it? 21:52:19 who all is in Brevard? 21:52:25 Orlando here 21:52:26 like I said, I am going to set up some sub-pages on the wiki for other things, like accomplishments, new members, etc. 21:52:30 brevard! 21:52:31 cocoa beach, cape royal building 21:52:33 hmm ic 21:52:39 melbourne 21:52:41 ok, melbourne 21:52:44 this is awesome 21:52:44 melbourne 21:52:50 at least four of us in brevard already 21:52:55 3 in melb 21:53:04 I think I am the only polk county, but theres one or two from tampa 21:53:06 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3343196262291457240 21:53:46 Cocoa Beach isn't too far 21:54:02 and hell or high water, I will be at the MLUG meeting on Tuesday 21:54:20 One thing would really help get Ubuntu noticed: BOOTH BABES! 21:54:28 xzai: get on the booth babes ;) 21:54:46 maybe we can meet at the new bunky's 21:54:58 booth babes are done 21:54:58 I don't go to coconuts 21:55:07 coconuts in cocoa beach? 21:55:12 yes 21:55:13 Bunky's sounds more my speed, anyway 21:55:15 lets go to ledo!!!!!! 21:55:18 I think I ate lunch there like 2 years ago before my honeymoon cruise 21:55:18 NOOO CHEATERS 21:55:20 lol xzai 21:55:22 Also, we should start telling teenagers they are NOT allow to use Ubuntu 21:55:24 the room 21:55:36 hey we got a middle schooler in our group, btw! 21:55:43 lets have a meeting at cheaters i know a bunch of girls 21:55:46 who work there 21:56:05 you're gonna cost me $400 to have a damn LoCo Brevard meeting, xzai ! 21:56:09 If we tell teenagers they are NOT allow to use Ubuntu, that will simply get them to use it. 21:56:20 coachdanny: lol, excellent point 21:56:25 no we can get in for free 21:56:30 okay I can't afford any of those places 21:56:30 we can drink for cheap 21:56:31 although I'm *shocked* at how many teenagers use and write code for Linux 21:56:52 a few beers and something dangerous or fried is my forte, i.e. Bunky's :P 21:56:56 I got my kids to turn down the music by pulling up to their school with it blasting. It a LeSabre 21:57:02 Well, I think its relatively clear that any future in-person meeting, if even possible, will most likely have to be in orlando 21:57:16 we'll be screwing xzai and lando, but the rest of us are close 21:57:18 i think Orlando is fairly central to all of us, no? 21:57:20 orlando is cool 21:57:27 the airport area 21:57:28 clean cood too 21:57:32 code 21:57:36 bordy: Orlando is only about an hour+ from Melbourne 21:57:38 I am there every thursday morning 21:57:56 at the Marriott 21:58:07 Welp, in the interest of keeping this around an hour, lets summarize 21:58:09 Meet at City Walk 21:58:11 to do your investment seminar? :P 21:58:15 yea we do a in person meeting ill catch a ride out there 21:58:26 City Walk? 21:58:36 We need to split up some sub teams with their own responsibilities, just so we can focus on getting our message out, and getting approved. 21:58:37 I don't do I-Drive or the rat 21:58:43 Where Universal and Islands of Adventure are 21:58:45 I will work on that soon, at least on the wiki 21:59:01 We know what each of us is good at now, so that should be able to help us specialize 21:59:02 bordy: a list of desired subteams would be great, then we can plug ourselves in 21:59:11 Will do, elcasey-lap 21:59:26 when's the next online meeting? 21:59:28 are we using Ohio as a model? 21:59:37 We talked about how to get approved, and I hope I pushed the importance of that... (ie, they only send you good materials when you are approved) 22:00:03 WE talked about personal wikis, and elcasey-lap are you going to set up the text files? (template and how-to?) 22:00:05 Has anyone seen the Gentoo wiki? 22:00:15 I am going to edit the actual wiki how to to add in a little ease of use 22:00:19 bordy: yeah, just keep on me and we'll collaborate on that. 22:00:20 How about meeting in Melbourne at some internet coffee shop 22:00:27 that's real cheap 22:00:38 Alright, good meeting. How does everyone feel about meeting say, the first sunday of every month? 22:00:45 Mike_F: when this is over, let's coordinate 22:00:52 okay 22:00:54 bordy: that's fine with me 22:00:57 I think online meetings are going to be more successful 22:00:59 bordy: sounds good 22:01:04 I'm too broke to drive far 22:01:14 did we talk about custom cds? 22:01:20 I'm kinda against that... 22:01:26 not too much 22:01:26 it's the airport closer to winter park then i-drive 22:01:30 why's that, poningru? 22:01:38 lot of man-hours 22:01:41 another maintainance thing 22:01:43 yeah 22:01:45 true 22:01:52 we dont want to add burden 22:01:56 well, when we get approved we can order liveCD's in bulk 22:02:02 (just ask vorian!) 22:02:09 but changing the default theme in Ubuntu might be nice :P 22:02:16 what about the conference kit? 22:02:18 well how about, in the meantime, we work on a couple florida-based backgrounds? 22:02:30 http://vorian.org/?page_id=31 22:02:32 conference kit you can order yourself, I think... or I might have to do it and have it shipped directly to you 22:02:32 There use to being a template for making CD holders to display in the art and marketing sections 22:02:34 i just ordered my second group of 10, and I can work on some FloLoCo wallpapers ;) 22:02:58 okay, as soon as I confirm the june 1 thing this week (i hope) 22:03:02 coachdanny: they're still around somewhere 22:03:27 ok, i'm back on the deskop machine now 22:03:30 How about a Florida specific PowerPoint/Impress presentation to send around, maybe even put on YouTube 22:03:42 Or a screencast, coachdanny? 22:03:46 Ugh 22:03:50 Xvidcap 22:03:55 painful 22:04:08