This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.
Meeting January 18, 2006
01:06 kjcole janew, ping?
01:10 kjcole jelkner, you're gone...
01:13 JaneW ack!!!
01:13 JaneW hello
=== flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined
#ubuntu-meeting
01:14 JaneW meeting totally slipped my mind!
01:14 JaneW where has the week gone?
01:14 JaneW and where is my reminder?
01:14 flint ...coffee...must get coffee...
01:14 kjcole hiya
01:15 JaneW who is here
01:15 JaneW hi flint
01:15 flint good morning campers! hi jane and kevin!
=== ealden [n=ealden@219.90.91.233] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW 's kids started Grade 1 today - threw me for a loop
01:16 JaneW kjcole & jelkner as promised we can start with doc news
today
01:17 flint Congradulationis Jane how many in grade 1? 2?
01:17 JaneW s/s
01:17 JaneW make that ONE KID
=== JaneW goes back to grade one to learn maths ;)
JaneW, I just got off the phone with Jeff. He usually
01:18 kjcole has to cut out early from these meetings and because
we're starting late, he's left it in my clumsy
hands. Oops. I dropped it.
01:18 flint I will rat them out. they have been hauling compuers all
weekend and have made no progress. :^)
01:18 JaneW kjcole: so you want to shoot, or defer?
01:18 JaneW is ogra here?
01:18 kjcole Defer.
01:18 ogra JanC, yup
01:18 JaneW kjcole: :P
01:18 JaneW hi ogra
01:19 JaneW ok the doc team aren't talking, so you are up
01:19 ogra still fighting with the flight 3 announcement
01:19 flint damn...they actually have made a whole lot of progress!
01:19 JaneW cool
01:19 ogra we have flight 3
01:19 JaneW is flight 3 done?
(Long and short of it is we didn't meet last weekend for
01:19 kjcole books, as we were meeting to gather and redistribute lots
of computers.)
01:19 JaneW do you need help with the announcement?
01:19 JaneW I can help
01:19 ogra yes, since two days, i'm really late with the
announcement
01:19 JaneW kjcole: ok thanks, you still on track though?
01:19 JaneW ogra: what needs to be done?
01:19 ogra (you know we have UVF tomorrow ;) )
01:20 kjcole janew, I believe so.
01:20 JaneW ogra: congrats on meeting another milestone :))
01:20 ogra :)
01:20 JaneW ogra: yes so it would be good to get the announcement out
today still
01:20 flint ollie, i read about the flights etc... is this more than
just another build or what?
01:20 ogra JaneW, yup... lets do it after the meeting
01:21 JaneW btw Thin Client Local devices is now officially deferred
for Dapper
01:21 ogra flint, yes
01:21 JaneW ogra: ok
01:21 ogra flight CDs are tested for basic installability
01:21 flint gotcha, I should download and test at f3?
01:21 ogra drawbacks and known bugs in flight Cds are noted in the
install notes
01:22 ogra so you shouldnt get bad surprises if you try them
01:22 ogra ok
01:22 jelkner ogra: how does the flight concept align with alpha and
beta?
01:22 flint definately congradulations are in order ollie
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01:22 ogra i have mostly done ubuntu work to prepare for UVF this
week apart form the flight CDs
01:22 jelkner great work, olllie!
01:23 ogra so i have not much to tell this week
local devices are officially deferred, but i'm just
01:23 ogra working on the latest ltspfs and ltspfsd packages, so we
have the base for it in universe
01:24 jelkner great
it should be no problem to follow the ltsp.org docs to
01:24 ogra set local device support up in a classic way with the
packages from universe+
01:24 flint ollie, I know that this is a pain, but can you paste in
the url for the f3 iso?
01:24 ogra http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/
01:24 flint thanks
01:25 ogra this flight Cd has sound support ... :)
01:25 ogra (for thin clients that is)
01:25 flint I intend to give this a try...
01:25 ogra i'm currently discussing the advantage of switching from
bash to a smaller shell with mdz
01:25 ogra that might get us near the 32MB ...
01:25 ogra (for clients)
01:26 flint cutting ram usage in half?
01:26 ogra nah
01:26 ogra we are at 48MB
01:26 ogra and it gets hard to get lower now ...
01:26 JaneW hi jelkner
01:26 ogra the kernel and initramfs already take more than 32MB
01:27 jelkner JaneW: hi jane!
01:27 flint how much ram would be saved?
01:27 JaneW jelkner: flights are pre alpha and beta, we'll actually
have a beta-proper before this release
i have a initramfs patch pending that supresses all
01:27 ogra harrdisk mosules that might get us less than 32MB for
kernel and intramfs ...
01:27 ogra for the shell change i cant predict any values yet
01:27 JaneW jelkner: which is a first for us
01:28 flint good morning jeff! you and kevin should talk about docs
and the secondary processor market...
01:28 ogra my main concern with the shell stuff was speed, using
less ram is a sideeffect
=== Yagisan is sorry he is late
01:29 Kamion jelkner: I'd say flight =~ alpha
the idea is that the flights (or collective noun for
01:29 JaneW release creature) are milestones withint the dev cycle to
weed out issues and check-point progress
01:29 ogra in other news i now own 5 thin clients
01:29 ogra so testing ius easier ....
01:29 JaneW like a dev->test->dev->test cycle
01:29 flint interesting, something like say "ash" woudl improve speed
over say "icewm"?
01:29 Kamion JaneW: yeah, alpha's a reasonably conventional term to
use to describe the milestone points in such a process
01:29 ogra jelkner, yes, beta is the release candidate (which we
actually call beta release this time iirc)
01:30 Kamion no, we'll be calling the preview release "beta"
01:30 Yagisan ogra: can we have our own -OS compiled kernels to save
space ?
01:30 Kamion release candidate is release candidate :)
01:30 ogra ah, yes
01:30 ogra i didnt scroll down :)
01:30 ogra Yagisan, nope
01:30 ogra Yagisan, not officially
01:31 Yagisan ogra: well, it was a nice idea while it lasted
elkner, there is actually an entire explanation of this
01:31 flint flight for dapper thing on an ubuntu web site, let me see
if i can find it.
01:31 ogra but the initramfs patch that i initially had to do
because powerpc couldnt boot will slim down a lot
01:31 JaneW Kamion: thanks
01:31 JaneW jelkner: what Kamion said!
01:31 ogra Yagisan, you wont gain mauch with a customized kernel ...
01:32 ogra Yagisan, the big piece here is the collection of modules
...
01:32 ogra so initramfs has an option to suporess unneeded ones ...
01:32 jelkner Kamion, yes, thanks!
01:33 Yagisan ogra: I was just interested in if the optimise for size
option would help
Yagisan, it might ... but we wont get separate kernels
01:33 ogra and you wont gain as much with a smaller kernel as you
can with a slimmed down initramfs
01:34 jelkner JaneW: same time next week?
01:34 jelkner i've gotta run...
01:34 JaneW jelkner: yes please
01:34 jelkner thanks
01:34 JaneW jelkner: and cookbook update then please
01:34 JaneW if you can
01:34 JaneW ciao
01:35 jelkner yes, and we will have stuff to report
01:35 jelkner can we put that on the agenda for the start of the
meeting?
01:35 ogra oh, i'm at a conference this weekend ... its from a
project thats sopnsored by the european union ...
01:35 jelkner ciao
they want to build their school and usermanagement
01:36 ogra software on top of knoppix and ubuntu it seems (klaus
knopper is there as well)
01:36 ogra #seems its fulls paied by the EU
01:36 ogra and has a good backing ...
01:36 flint cool...I am ready to immagrate back to the mother
country...I want a sane government!
01:37 ogra heh
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01:37 flint shake klaus' hand for me ollie
01:37 ogra it was initially gpl, then made proprietary, and became
gpl again now ...
01:37 ogra will do
01:37 ogra originally developed on and for SuSE
btw the site for the flight narrative is
01:38 flint http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/faq search for word
flight.
01:38 ogra but the EU and the people driving this project are *very*
intereasted having it run on debian based systems ...
01:38 ogra (mainly edubuntu and knoppix)
01:38 flint where would this be?
01:39 ogra it installs workstations from isos on the fly (even from
windows isos)
01:39 ogra looks very intresting
01:39 flint where geographically is the conference? near you?
01:39 ogra thats about 100km southern of my place, near the belkgian
border
01:39 ogra trier is near
01:40 JaneW ogra: sounds good
01:40 flint Trier? never been there...
01:40 ogra JaneW, yes, mark was very intrested that i go there
01:40 flint are they in the middle of the moodle schooltool thing yet
01:41 ogra nope they are way bigger
01:41 flint what is the name of what they want for a management
software thing?
01:41 ogra its a management system for whole schools and
universities
01:41 ogra including user as well as system and software management
01:41 ogra platform independent for the client architecture
01:42 ogra i have no clue ... had no time yet to look at it ...
01:42 ogra we are near UVF and i shouldnt ever chat here to get the
last packages in ;)
01:42 kjcole ogra, sounds like an ambitious system.
01:42 flint ogra, this is beginning to sound too good to be true. be
tolerant Ollie.
01:43 ogra yes, i'll look up the urls for you and send it to the ML
01:43 flint thanks. Now that I think about it Bush vs
Eurocrats...tough call eh Jane?
01:44 ogra pfft bush ...
01:44 flint exactly!!!!
01:44 ogra how long has he left in this period ?
01:44 ogra he'll be gone soon ...
01:45 flint please, he can do a lot more damage
01:45 ogra true ...
01:45 kjcole ogra, say that and we'll bring "freedom and democracy"
to your country too! so be afraid. ;-)
01:45 ogra lol
01:45 flint excellent kevin
01:45 flint lol indeed
01:46 ogra hey, we have "neckless angie" .... she'll manage :P
=== Yagisan mumbles somthing about importing that crap^Wstuff down here
01:46 flint ok we got the flight 3 in our sights.
01:46 JaneW ogra: don't talk about jbailey's wife like that! :P
01:46 flint ouch that is funny about your new pm!
01:47 ogra JaneW, *she* has a neck :)
01:47 JaneW does anyone want to volunteer as minutes atker for these
meetings?
01:47 JaneW I don;t mind the job, but I never seem to manage to get
it done anymore
01:48 ogra flint, flight 3 is old news already :)
01:48 JaneW and the Ubuntu Dapper Report takes a big chunk of my time
currently
01:48 flint i know that, jeff did not.
01:49 ogra flint, yes, because i suck at timely announcements ;)
01:49 flint JaneW, what is involved?
01:49 ogra flint, see the MeetingNotes page on the wiki
=== cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-68-125-50-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has
joined #ubuntu-meeting
01:50 ogra flint, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords
01:50 flint i did not even know there was a meeting notes page!
01:51 flint ogra, thanks
01:51 JaneW flint: liar!
01:51 JaneW flint: sorry I mean Alzheimers!
=== JaneW hides
01:52 flint do not worry I will likely forget that remark :^)
01:52 ogra lol
01:52 ogra oh, i need artwork still !!
01:52 ogra nearly forgot about that
flint: but yes basically taking salient meeting
01:53 JaneW notes/decisions and adding them to:
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords
01:53 JaneW oh yes
=== Seveas hands ogra the paint
01:53 ogra the artwork packages currently lets you select the age,
but has 3 times the same design :)
01:53 JaneW ogra: list what you need, I'll nag silbs again
01:53 JaneW wallpaper, splash, and gdm theme?
01:53 JaneW ogra: you got icon sets?
01:54 ogra we can keep the young design i think (another wallpaper
might be fine) so what i need is mid age and older age
01:54 ogra i wanted to take the default icon theme for the two older
flavours
as a consultant and the authorized representative of
01:54 flint beazulbub, prince of falsehood, let me look into the
notes thing...
01:55 ogra so we'd only need wallpaper and splash screen artwork
01:57 ogra did somebody tell elkner that we are using malone
exclusively now ?
01:57 kjcole ogra, nope but it's pretty obvious when one goes to
bugzilla...
01:57 ogra oh, damned, i also wanted him to take a look at pida #
01:58 kjcole ogra, pida?
01:58 ogra its a cool python IDE i could imagine for main inclusion
01:58 ogra eh, and i did forget, gobby is in !! ( JaneW ")
01:58 flint pida yaide neat! is it in universe?
01:58 ogra yup+
01:59 JaneW ogra: oh yay, I noticed your discussion with pitti in the
dapper meeting last week
01:59 ogra but it looks like its easy to get to main ...
01:59 JaneW it looked promising
01:59 kjcole ogra, ah. I know he's talked to Stani of SPE fame, and
Stani's modified SPE to be more Ubuntu-friendly
01:59 flint the only down side of gobby is that it sorta needs a
server for school-to-school
01:59 ogra spe is totally broken
01:59 ogra and UVF is tomorrow
01:59 JaneW ogra: did you look at Quim's reckommeded app Dasher?
01:59 ogra i doubt that will be fixed in time
01:59 JaneW spe?
01:59 ogra its an editior
02:00 JaneW ogra: what are our issues for UVF?
02:00 JaneW ogra: are we asking for any exceptions this time?
02:00 ogra JaneW, yes, dasher is a input tool for handhelds that was
adopted by the a11y people
02:00 ogra JaneW, nope
JaneW, SPE = Stani's Python Editor which includes a lot
02:00 kjcole of wxpython capability and i gather shows a lot of
promise...
02:00 JaneW ogra: does it makes sense for us to look at it for uni
and/or Dapper +1?
02:00 ogra ltsp development can go on until feature freeze, we dont
need exceptions
02:00 JaneW yay
02:01 JaneW ogar: I am PROUD OF YOU
02:01 ogra kjcole, we wont accept awxpython in main i think
02:01 JaneW and anyone who may have helped you.
02:01 ogra kjcole, so SPE is not an option
02:03 flint I thought that pycard was wx.
02:04 flint na, it is gtk
02:04 ogra pida is also for pygtk and has a direct glade interface
for gazpacho ...
02:05 kjcole Naturally, when learning GUI stuff for Python, I went
with wx... :-(
02:05 ogra its like idle on steroids with fresh design
and it supports embedding of different editors in the IDE
02:07 ogra ... you are not bound to the shipped one but can select
emacs or vim ...
02:07 flint never fooled with gazpacho mostly playing with Scite
02:07 ogra that brings me an idea ...
02:07 ogra i'll ask upstream if he likes to include gobby support ;)
02:08 kjcole ogra, now there's a wild and crazy idea. I *LIKE* it!
02:08 flint ogra, ollie, what we need in gobby space is a server that
can take gobby sessions and connect htem...
02:09 flint one really cool hack would be to connect them to xchat...
02:09 ogra flint, the current version supports that
02:09 kjcole flint, like a gobby daemon that doesn't have to be
started by any individual, but just sits and listens...
02:09 ogra and gobby brings a chat itself ...
02:09 flint supports a connection via xchat? your kidding...
02:09 ogra nope, a dedicated server
02:10 flint kjcole, exactly it is a gobby catcher, the users gobbys
are the pitchers...
02:10 kjcole flint, i'm going to dist-upgrade docbox if that's the
case. ;-)
02:11 flint ogra, a dedicated server? indeed. kjcole use the
development box and have at it.
02:11 ogra i dont know how to set it up, i only know its included
02:11 ogra sobby is the name iirc
02:12 flint ogra, kjcole and I had a time with gobby, i ended up
xsessioning into his box to use it. most slow.
02:12 flint ogra, sobby eh? I will look into it.
02:12 ogra but that was 0.2.0
02:12 ogra we have 0.3.0 now
02:13 ogra should have improved a lot
02:13 flint they call it an obby server why leave off the "g"?
02:14 flint anyway, i am gonna get some coffee. I will be on but
upstairs with a cup in my hand for a few minutes...
02:15 ogra hmm, btw, why wasnt the edubuntu meeting on the fridge ?
02:15 ogra my evolution pulls the webcal from there and notifies me
...
02:15 ogra JaneW, ??
02:16 kjcole i gotta run to work,
=== sivang amazes at the amount of new apps he gets to see here
=== kjcole gets his coat...
02:17 JaneW ogra: yes I got no reminder either
02:17 sivang ogra: pida is in python I guess?
=== JaneW will send a mail to the fridge techies
02:17 ogra sivang, yup
02:17 ogra sivang, pygtk
02:17 sivang very cool
02:17 ogra and finally a IDE that embeds vim
02:18 sivang were you talking about which editors to include for
python in Edubuntu ?
ogra, any idea how to get korganizer to pull the
02:18 kjcole calendar automatically? I end up downloading it an
importing it, but would like a better way.
=== sivang apologies, been busy at work didn't have time to follow the
discussions too much.
02:19 ogra kjcole, nope, no idea, in evo you just add the webcal url
and it updates automatically
02:19 ogra but i dont touch KDE stuff if i dont need to
sivang, its likely to late to include it for dapper, but
02:20 ogra i want the people to test heavily since we will change
the software selection in dapper+1
ogra that may be enough info to go on. thanks. (I
02:20 kjcole figured something like that, but wanted to be sure it
wasn't too obscure in evolution.)
02:20 sivang ogra: specifically for python editors, or change the
whole software selection for Edubuntu ?
02:21 kjcole and i'm outa here. bye!
02:21 ogra in evo you just add a new calendar and tell it to pull
the webcal address ...
02:21 sivang bye kjcole
02:21 ogra sohould be similar in KDE
02:21 ogra sivang, we'll see
first point i want people to be aware of all the stuff
02:22 ogra thats there and make suggestions on the ML for a new
selectin
02:22 ogra after thats done we'll see how much demand is there
02:23 ogra dapper+1 is still some months away
02:23 sivang yes, true
02:29 JaneW 3 months to be exact
02:32 ogra JaneW, mhz is nagging about a new summit ...
02:32 flint ogra, summits can be fun.
=== JaneW read that as 'swimsuit'
02:33 JaneW mdz: I think we may be able to schedule one after Dapper
releases
02:33 JaneW likely not before
02:33 flint JaneW, an excellent thought
02:33 JaneW sabdfl will want to see how we do on this release forst
and if we keep the momentum going
02:34 flint well, we have done what we can to keep him entertained,
that is for certian.
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#ubuntu-meeting
02:35 flint the good news from here is that my test capability is
about to start and will with f3.
02:36 flint and for all the posturing about the cookbook, the boys
are actually making good progress on docbox
one idea that has survived in my altzheimers inflicted
02:37 flint brain is that of matching the style of the cookbook with
the graphic style of the product. do you recall that one
janeW?
02:38 JaneW flint: yup
02:38 JaneW flint: meaning gartoon theme etc?
02:39 flint well, that said I thought I saw you refering to different
graphics for different levels in this meeting. eh?
02:39 flint whatever is in f3 is what i will agitate the cookbook
mafia to go with.
02:40 flint what is a gartoon theme? (I'm a doctor jim, not a graphic
artist :^)
02:41 flint JaneW, ok I got it it is a gnome theme...
02:42 JaneW flint: after ppl saying edubuntu was too naive looking
and aimed at only 6-10 y/o kids we agreed to do
02:42 JaneW 1) Young as per current but with different wall paper
02:42 JaneW 2) Older appealing to 10-15 y/o
02:42 flint yea, that's it. that's the ticket. will this be the
same at all levels of system use?
02:43 JaneW 3) Generic plain and simple look, less distracting and
resource intensive and possibly for tertiary edu use
02:43 flint JaneW, the question then is can that three level
demarcation be continued in the cookbook?
02:43 JaneW how?
02:44 JaneW the cook book is not specific to any of the choices
02:44 JaneW but we should perhaps depict the selections in the cook
book
02:44 flint JaneW, like the intro and fundamental stuff is in graphic
1 style and so on...
02:44 JaneW nah I think select one and be consistent
02:45 flint JaneW, kidnap note typography forever!
=== JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and an announcement to get
out...
02:45 JaneW ogra: ping ^^^
02:45 flint JaneW, i will get back to you via mail about notes...
later this week.
02:46 JaneW flint: awesome thanks
02:46 flint ogra, you asleep?
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
the gauledette community of deaf folks sign off with
02:47 flint "stop key stop key" or sksk, I would like to adopt this
convention here.
02:47 flint later, sksk
=== flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has left
#ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
02:49 ogra nope, my line is shaky
02:51 JaneW ogra: * JaneW has to go, we have just over an hour, and
an announcement to get out...
02:51 JaneW JaneW ogra: ping ^^^
02:56 ogra JaneW, a minute please, my line is dropping all the time
...
02:57 ogra JaneW, better now
02:57 JaneW ogra: ok